Trans rights supporters -can we please unite on the cervical cancer issue

[speakingwoman]

I’m very worried about the cervical cancer issue.
If you are an advocate of trans rights but believe that cancer research should address its screening calls to “women” please do say so here.

To everyone else, if this is going to fail can we just let it fail quietly please?

There are some things just as important as conflicts of rights, people not dying of undetected cervical cancer is one of these.

If I get any support I will write to Cancer Research.

Transactivists could defuse and fix this right now. A message from Stonewall saying: transfolx need to be aware that while your identity is valid, it should not override your health need. When it comes to life saving checks, put the pronouns to one side. You are still who you are'.

They could. They won't.

I don’t think there is anything wrong wuth the message as it stands.

A Public Service Announcement: Even if you no longer have a cervix, you should still consider having a smear as cervical cells and the surrounding cells are not well-differentiated.

That was the advice given to me by the consultant who performed my hysterectomy due to cervical cancer.

I'm struggling to see what the objection is to "women and trans men " or "women, trans men and people with a cervix".

The only trans person I know is a trans man. I suspect "person with a cervix" would not resonate with him.

To be honest the manufactured outrage by transphobes is bordering on insane.

Saying everyone with a cervix, is literally.... wait for it..... EVERYONE with a cervix.

It is crystal clear that the guidance is trying to cover everyone who needs a smear.

The frankly insulting levels of whataboutery when it concerns something as insidious as cancer, and GC 'feminists' threatening to withhold donations from a charity because their transphobia takes precedent over everything else will 'peak' people, and not in the way GC 'feminists' are aiming for.

The nhs needs to get across to people that no matter what gender you think you are, if you have a cervix you are st risk.

Prostate cancer needs similar messaging

Hmm, well I certainly wouldn't be adding the words 'non-binary' because that nonsense needs zero encouragement. Even if someone identifies as non-binary, if they truly don't know their birth sex then their problems are way bigger than the failure to interpret an advert.

Transmen must also be acutely aware of their biology otherwise they would not be trying to identify out of it.

I think it should just say 'women' and as a separate thing the NHS should publish a reminder that people who identify as transgender should still attend screenings relevant to their birth sex. (Because they will never change sex).

It doesn't matter how hard we try to comply. The massive problem is that transactivists have created a situation where it's considered more important to validate an identity than to take life saving health measures. This applies across the board. They can stop it, any time, by readjusting priorities.

This, they will not do.

*It doesn't matter how hard we try to comply. The massive problem is that transactivists have created a situation where it's considered more important to validate an identity than to take life saving health measures. This applies across the board. They can stop it, any time, by readjusting priorities.

This, they will not do.*

Gender critical feminists have created a situation where it is considered more important to invalidate an identity that to take life saving health measures. This applies across the board. They can stop it, any time, by readjusting priorities.

This, they will not do...

Lass, totally agree with you. There should be no conflict in using language that speaks to as many ‘people with a cervix’ as possible.

Most people seem to be in broad agreement that the most efficient way of doing this is via some kind of ‘women AND’ phrasing.

I don’t want any cervix-haver to miss out on potential life saving screening.

Anyone that says it’s fine to exclude the word ‘women’ entirely is showing their educational privilege, in my opinion.

This is one arena in which there really need not be conflict. No one actually wants women or transmen to die of cervical cancer, do they?

Cancer Research UK have done a silly, and it needs correcting.

Saying everyone with a cervix, is literally.... wait for it..... EVERYONE with a cervix

It is crystal clear that the guidance is trying to cover everyone who needs a smear

It isn't crystal clear. You are assuming everyone knows what a cervix is and that is a big assumption. The equivalent for prostate cancer simply refers to "men" not anyone with a prostate.

Truly inclusive language for cervical cancer would be "women, trans men and anyone with a cervix" . For prostate cancer "men, trans women and anyone who has a prostate gland"

It is not like for example pancreatic or bowel cancer where everyone has a pancreas or bowels.

It hurts no one to expand the language to make it clear what a cervix is.

a situation where it's considered more important to validate an identity than to take life saving health measures

And yet from your posts on the subject it appears you find it more important to invalidate an identity than to take life saving health measures.

It hurts no one to expand the language to make it clear what a cervix is.

this I agree with, and some nuanced language change requests is one thing.

However to blame yet again, the trans community for the wording chosen by a charity is silly. Yes I know it will be posited it was pressure from trans groups, as always there is zero evidence of this.

But more importantly the ridiculous dogpiling onto cancer charities and threats of withholding future donations is a far bigger issue than anything from the trans side in this discussion.

@Pratchet You are trying to claim victimhood, and blame feminists, for a situation entirely created by transactivism.

As a frequent gender-critical poster to these boards, I am not likely to blame feminism for the situation that transmen find themselves in. I only call them "transmen" because the new rules prevent "Tango India Foxtrot". My point, that as biological females their wellbeing is in-scope for feminism, stands. We don't turn our backs on other females in trouble, even though that trouble is not our fault. And, yes, they are victims, they are the victims of TRA lies that they can identify out of female reproductive class oppression. Until they desist, assuming that they do, they still need cervical smears

Garam: feminists came late to this particular 'party'. Transactivists have been telling kids and adults alone that nothing is more important than identity, pronouns, vskiduation and the compliance of others. Don't blame this on feminists. We are dealing with the fall out while transactivists just keep on complaining about everything.

To be fair, I think it’s simply one of many reasons to choose one charity over another.

I’d not paid much attention before now, but in light of this discussion The Eve Appeal are ticking my personal boxes (pun intended) at present.

I agree with you bd and by 'you' I did not mean you. You are doing what transactivists should be doing: trying to help sort out a problem they created.

In trying to find that lost bookmark, I did find this one:

Do trans women go to gynecologists?
Once a trans woman has had bottom surgery, they should definitely regularly see a gynecologist. Think about it: A post-op trans woman isn't any different than a cisgender woman that has had her reproductive organs removed.

Huh?
No, surgically constructed 'vaginas' are not at all the same. Completely different issues going on, completely different tissue structure. And definitely, zero cervix involved.

"Tango India Foxtrot"
^ LOL

@garam: Saying everyone with a cervix, is literally.... wait for it..... EVERYONE with a cervix.

I have known women who, despite being barely literate, were raising kids. I have known women who spoke so little English that they had their kids translate for them. These women would not have understand that they had a cervix. As SMG said, there is a duty on healthcare providers to provide information in plain english. CRUK are currently failing on that. Adding "women" remedies that failure. Kindly check your educational privilege.

LaSqurrl - I don't know where that quote is from but I'd put money on someone getting Transmen mixed up with Transwomen.

However to blame yet again, the trans community for the wording chosen by a charity is silly. Yes I know it will be posited it was pressure from trans groups, as always there is zero evidence of this

I agree. I said so a few pages back.