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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

New guidelines - we aren't allowed to refer to natal sex

681 replies

Maryz · 14/06/2018 11:44

According to KateMumsnet:

"We also thought it might be useful to clarify our thinking about general terms for trans people. Having said that TIM is not okay, it seems a bit illogical to allow other terms which hang upon natal sex."

Well that's that really, isn't it.

We are all being told to pretend that men have become women.

Am I going to be deleted/banned for this post?

OP posts:
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AngryAttackKittens · 15/06/2018 23:30

Ah, but that only works if you think that the transwidows threads were being used to harass people (they weren't). In terms of "misgendering", I'd say that anyone arguing that a women trying to escape a relationship that's making her miserable must be very careful about using the pronouns that the person making her miserable prefers lacks both empathy and decency.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 15/06/2018 23:32

You only have friends that agree with you SMG?

Thats explaining A LOT!!

SupermatchGame · 15/06/2018 23:35

Happy to believe you wrote it badly...

Rufus did it really come across that badly? If so then yes, sorry if I inferred that, of course it wasn't what I meant. I didn't mean to imply that there was equivalence between physical violence and misgendering. I am also not suggesting mumsnet isn't the place for traumatised women. Sorry if it came across like that.

R0wantrees · 15/06/2018 23:37

Fascinating to read SMG.

I can't relate to what you've described at all but I'm always interested to hear new things.

AngryAttackKittens · 15/06/2018 23:41

The comment about MN not being the right place for the transwidows to seek support came across so badly that what, 10 or so people already said so in increasingly vehement ways? Not sure how many have to say it before it occurs to you that maybe they really did think you were being colossally insensitive, Supermatch.

Pratchet · 15/06/2018 23:42

So you have no problem with the trans widows talking freely herevon mumsnet, about their trauma, however is best to heal their suffering?

SupermatchGame · 15/06/2018 23:43

You only have friends that agree with you

No I don't. I come here specifically knowing I am going to be disagreeing with a lot of people.

Generally my friends and I share the same values and attitudes. Doesn't mean we agree on absolutely everything.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 15/06/2018 23:43

To be fair i think SMG heart is in the right place usually when she posts

I was surprised

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 15/06/2018 23:44

I have friends that pretend to agree with me to shut me up

Works for me Grin

Original poster
Maryz · 15/06/2018 23:46

SMG, I haven't seen you on the thread about planting a device at the Hastings meeting.

I assume you would condemn such violence, and I also assume you recognise that more violence is threatened (and carried out) against women than against the TRAs (many of whom are men).

It's about time that the supporters picked a side. And spoke out when their side behaves appallingly.

OP posts:
AngryAttackKittens · 15/06/2018 23:47

I'm used to seeing Supermatch say thins that I think are silly, and often goady, but the transwidows thread comment crossed the line into downright callous. Under what possible logic could the feminist forum on a site for women not be an appropriate place to seek support about a relationship a woman is miserable in? Anyone suggesting that it isn't has fundamentally failed to grasp what this site is for.

SupermatchGame · 15/06/2018 23:49

So you have no problem with the trans widows talking freely herevon mumsnet, about their trauma, however is best to heal their suffering?

So you're talking about that comment? I don' think I've ever looked at the transwidows thread but I wrote that I understand the need for it. Didn't I also say that it was for MN to decide if here was the right place? Not me - mumsnet.

So you have no problem with the trans widows talking freely herevon mumsnet, about their trauma, however is best to heal their suffering?

Just to be clear: I have no problem with trans widows talking freely here on mumsnet about their trauma as part of their healing.

Pratchet · 15/06/2018 23:55

Good. I will screenshot.

Stop gaslighting me. To suggest that mumsnet should decide if mumsnet is the right place for such s thread obviously contained the implicit suggestion that it is not.

SupermatchGame · 15/06/2018 23:57

Maryz I can't read every single thread on the board. Yes I condemn violence of course. I don't know what that particular issue about a 'device' is. I have actually watched all the video from start to finish. More than a lot of people will have done. Only so many hours in the day.

It's about time that the supporters picked a side. And spoke out when their side behaves appallingly.

So you're trying to force me to pick a side? Isn't this part of the problem - extreme views on both sides. Isn't the truth somewhere in the middle? No one seems to like that though, never seems controversial enough for some people.

AngryAttackKittens · 15/06/2018 23:58

Yeah, sorry, not buying it.

Pratchet · 15/06/2018 23:59

No, the truth is not in the middle. Sex is binary. Men are not women. Sex is immutable. Truth or faith. Pick a side.

SupermatchGame · 16/06/2018 00:02

Stop gaslighting me. To suggest that mumsnet should decide if mumsnet is the right place for such s thread obviously contained the implicit suggestion that it is not.

I'm not. I used that expression because MN have themselves been asking people to 'consider if MN is the right place for them'.

Original poster
Maryz · 16/06/2018 00:02

If you are going to spend a lot of time here defending the transactivist position (note: I saId TA, I'm not talking about ordinary individuals living quietly as they please) then I think you have a responsibility to notice the TA position when it crosses a line.

OP posts:
AngryAttackKittens · 16/06/2018 00:03

Most people would say that hitting infants is wrong. There's an evangelical group in the US that says that hitting infants is essential - they put out a book about it and everything, apparently crying is a sign of an infant disobeying the godly mandate that they show submission and obedience to their parents.

Does the truth always lie somewhere in the middle, or is the latter group just wrong?

SupermatchGame · 16/06/2018 00:04

Yy Angry I know you don't like what I say, don't like me, and think I"m goady f*er central. I'll just have to live with it.

Pratchet · 16/06/2018 00:10

Why would you say that? Why would it occur to you to say mumsnet must decide if it should be hosting a thread for traumatised women? What kind of mind does that even pop up in?

spontaneousgiventime · 16/06/2018 00:12

Hey Mumsnet, just to add - Dana Lane Taylor, and Sarah "suck my formaldehyde pickled balls" Brown, etc - these are the people you are prioritising and protecting over and above the women who are actually here filling your site with humorous, supportive and intelligent content, and by doing so paying your bills and puting food in your mouths, and providing you with the credibility you are foolishly pissing away.

Joan has just gained a new fan girl.

AngryAttackKittens · 16/06/2018 00:13

Next up! Should mumsnet still host threads that offer breastfeeding support to new mothers? That's up to mumsnet to decide.

Maybe we can do this for parking threads too, just for the sake of completeness.

SupermatchGame · 16/06/2018 00:16

Because people were saying they were hoping that thread wouldn't get targeted by MN - which sounds like there may be some things on there that may break the rules. I don't actually know but I'm curious to find out now.

Do you think my mind is an evil cesspit Pratchet? Is that what you are wanting to say?

SupermatchGame · 16/06/2018 00:19

Oh look it's that time of night when Angry the hilarious comedienne comes out to rock us all with witty repartee!