Women defining themselves as wife and mother.

[MissBax]

Two separate women fiends of mine who have married in the last couple of years - have changed their instagram handles to "The Smiths" and "Mrs Jenny Jones" (not real names, obvs).
I think it's a real shame that women still feel so defined by the fact they are married. Neither of their husbands have done this - they still have their same accounts documenting beers, food, football. Meanwhile these women have gone from posting about their interests, hobbies, work etc, to just tediously posting about their lives as wives and mothers.
I'm all for women having the choice about how they present themselves of course! But I just think it's sad that they never post anything about themselves anymore, they just seem totally defined as "wife/mother".
I feel we still have a long way to go for modern day women and feminism.

'I don't see why it matters to you so much'

That's how a discussion board works! People share opinions. If everyone stuck to only discussing grave issues that affected them personally, MN would be a very quiet place

And none of our 'free choices' are as free as we think they are.

I’d rather read posts about someone’s kids than look at photos of their dinner.

@JessicaEccles
It's strange that you mention Andrea Leadsom as I was just thinking of her earlier today and the whole motherhood making her a better candidate debacle.

It's been proven time and again that women do the majority of the physical and mental work associated with children, yet if we are to mention it in a corporate or political environment it's seen as unprofessional and a wholly unnecessary. The work is therefore invisible for all intents in purposes in any realm outside of the domestic one. This (an potentially caring for elderly relatives) is the only type of work that is viewed in this way.

Why couldn't Andrea Leadsom say that motherhood had made her a better candidate as it had increased her understanding of not only issues related to children but also those related to mothers? Just in the same way as if she had spent years travelling the world she could argue she had a better understanding of different cultures or had spent years gardening she could say she understood matters related to horticulture. You might say that none of the above have any relation to whether she is the best candidate to be PM but isn't that for the electorate to decide rather than everyone ganging up on someone for daring to suggest motherhood added value to someone that was going to represent a whole bunch of mothers?

I know this was particularly contentious as Theresa May couldn't have children and I understand that this must have seemed quite cruel, but looking at it coldly, surely without the distraction of children Theresa May must have been able to devote all the extra energy and effort into different channels that could have bolstered her candidacy (like most men who aren't usually burdened in the same way by children)? It's hard to articulate without sounding goady but what I'm trying to say is that if we can't even mention that motherhood brings with it valuable experience and learning that could have value outside of the domestic sphere then how will women ever close the gap on men? We have energy diverted from corporate/public life whilst they leap frog us and we can't even mention what we were busy doing. Madness!

'Why couldn't Andrea Leadsom say that motherhood had made her a better candidate as it had increased her understanding of not only issues related to children but also those related to mothers? '

She didn't say that though. She suggested that being a mother gave her a much greater stake in the future of the country, compared with poor old Theresa who probably has nieces or nephews or whatever, 'but I have children'. It was cruel, smug, self-satisfied and entirely unnecessary. And as a woman who is not a mother, extremely hurtful. God knows how Theresa May felt being on the receiving end of it.

@Lottapianos
Oh yes sorry, I should have explained that what she actually said was unacceptable. I was trying to make a point that some commentators seemed to think that the whole reference to motherhood generally was wrong which I don't necessarily agree with.

I feel quite muddled about this.

I don't like the 'grow up and marry a prince to look after you and what a good girl you achieved it' attitude but ...

choosing to get married and have children is life defining for both men and women.

and I tend to think that its not really a problem that women are recognising the significance of these events, (particularly being a parent) but the problem is more men aren't. I think married men should change title as well, or no one should. Mx and Mr or Miss, Mr, Mrs and Mrd and I think men should be talking and thinking a lot more about being a father. I think then more women will be able to add some dull hobby to their list of things that define themselves and have more to say about their careers.

@sleepingdragons - Well said. It's just another example of the insidious attitude that girls are a bit shit and the best way of being a woman is to be more like a man.
I've always reckoned that at work, the sexes really need each other. To put it in crude and completely stereotypical terms, the men need the women so that the whole caboosh doesn't turn into Who can Piss The Highest, and the women need the men so that there's someone in the office that hasn't got Impostor Syndrome.
But in parenting? Here's this amazing thing that women are really good at, the success or failure of which makes more difference to a person's life than just about anything else, and maybe we should learn to value it a bit more.
I can only speak for myself, but I had Proper Jobs for decades and never felt all that good about it. Sure, I'm the prey of evolutionary influences, but I'm not diminished by motherhood. I'm - magnified.

I loved my job and I was damned good at it, but it meant absolutely nothing to me once I had kids.

I am a happily married woman and a mother.... both of these tings define who I am as much as being a married man and father defines my husband.

It's not saying people shouldn't mention marriage or kids, more that there's a type who do appear defined by it.

Just thinking from my own friends list:
A - Mum to 3 children, 2 have SEND needs and she's a carer for them. Always wanted to be a wife and mum. Never wanted a career. Came out of work to be a SAHP. Does loads of stuff in the community. Her social media is a mix of family stuff and things she's doing voluntarily around millions of appointments and the school run. Never see her going on about her hubster.

B - Dad. Works full time. Posts are a mix of family things (mainly) and a few hobby posts. Wife is SAHP.

C - Dad. Works full time. Wife works part time. Both post family updates. She tends to do more 'ooh look we're married' but it's sweet and they both seem to have other interests.

D - Mum. Works part time. Seems to think social media is her opportunity to tell the world her baby feeding habits. Lots of inspirational quotes about how awesome it is to breast feed and how her baby is happier and healthier for it. Lots of time with boob monster. It's like she's gone from a functioning human adult to a pair of tits with access to facebook.

E - Mum and Dad. Both post family things and things they've done separately. Maybe a date night check in. Fairly standard.

F - Someone who left school with limited GCSEs. Aim in life was to be a mum. Barely had jobs. Popped out babies to her boyfriend really quickly. Moved in. Lots of using social media as jeremy kyle so Simon is the worst fucking dad on earth on day but then they're loved up and baby is having cuddles with daddy the next. She's threatened to leave him multiple times, but a matter of weeks after that there's another baby announcement. On 4 or 5 kids now. Married to him. Most of her posts are about the kids and how hard it is being a mum whilst also laughing about how much of a tip her house is in and how much she loves/hates DH at any given time

G - functioning woman got married and it was like a personality transplant. Everything is about hubby/hubster/#mrandmrs/#marriedlife lots of photos of tea and how the boy did good etc. Lots of inspiration shared quotes about how your hubby is your rock, you love your famalam

Both men and women I'm friends with mention their DP/DW/DH.
Plenty of women have changed their names.
Men and women share family stuff.

Only women on my newsfeed seem to scrap their own personality and do the 'my life is my man and child' stuff.

Totally agree with posieparker above. I used to gain great fulfilment from my career, but it simply faded into insignificance after I had DC.

Most jobs come and go and are actually pretty meaningless when you scratch below the surface, yet people have no qualms defining themselves as an "insurance broker", "HR co-ordinatior" or whatever they want to big themselves up as.

I'm not ashamed about describing myself as a mother. It's the most life-defining thing I've ever done. I'm a wife too and this is a huge part of the life I've carved out for myself. I think differently as a wife and mother to the way I did as a single person, of course I do.

Having said this, I'm not on Facebook or Instagram because I can't be bothered with all that. MN is quite enough for me. But I couldn't care less about how other people choose to describe themselves. Life is what you make it and people see things through their own lens. If someone is super proud of being a wife, then so what? It doesn't harm anyone else.

On Instagram I post more photos of my dog than anything else ¯\(ツ)/¯

This doesn't reduce me to being a dog owner and nothing else, it's just that she literally follows me everywhere I go. Not even the kids do that these days.

I see a lot of this. What’s interesting about it, to me is that I’ve never seen these types of changes and posting styles from a man.

I think that's the point dinosaur. I have loads of male friends who'll share a snap or 2 from a day out and are very hands on dads.
They don't change their bios to say 'James. Hubby to Jane. daddy to Milo & Jessie. Love my wifey and kiddypops to the moon and back'.
They don't do inspriational sharw quotes about how being a dad is the best thing in the whole universe.
They don't follow pages about dads where dads can share images about how hard it is being a dad or why their world is made complete by their wife

They show just normal, slightly boring, sometimes exciting life of a man in his eslry 30s

And to me, without wishing to belittle anyone’s personal choices - that seems like an indicator of inequality.

If society did value being a father as much as being a mother ..or if motherhood and fatherhood were perhaps more equal I’d expect to see a more equal style of posting from both sexes.

Also that being a “wife” seems to still be viewed as an achievement whereas being a husband does not. For it to be equal either both are an ahivement or neither is.

men and women have different social norms, and all i'm reading here is the man one is right and the woman one is wrong and I don't really get why.

Or maybe that should be - why is it typically viewed as an achievement to be a wife but not a husband ?

Or why do women define them selves as mothers before anything else but men less often define themselves as fathers first ?

Lol have you had kids? I have two preschool aged children. I haven't really done anything non mumsy since.

Sorry, barring professional type stuff but would be weird to put that on social media.

And your partner racecar ?

Has husband life changed in a similar way ? Or does he do very similar things to before ?

Obviously a large part of the reason women end up sahms is the gender pay gap, they're not creating it by staying at home.

Also, not every woman is going to be a high earner and in the cases of modest and low income earners, how do they earn enough to pay childcare and run household (if single) and half a household if in a couple.

The government needs to stop penalising women for maintaining the populattion. Childcare available to all. LIke school places.

That’s what seems key here. When a woman has children her life changes enormously.

When a man has children his life often continues in a similar way to before / perhaps some changes here and there. But far less changes than for a woman.

exactly.

but if there is an article about the pay gap u will see in the comments that the sexist men claim not to believe it and the fortunate women just think well i managed it sotherefore there is no issue -

A lot of people simply cannot seem to join up all the dots and see all of the obstacles a woman / mother might face and how even one of them can push her in to a smalled down life on benefits if she's single or push her in to being a sahm if she's with a partner.

Yet there aren't as many people talking about getting a universal childcare system up and running, available to all parents, like school places.

When we change things so that parenthood doesn't impact much more seriously upon women than it does on men, then and only then will things begin to change.

olwen - I don't disagree that better childcare would make a huge difference

but id prefer it in combination with better working practices - more men doing 3 or 4 day weeks. Less presenteeism.

Family life is important not just being enable to work constantly for other peoples gain.

@0lwen
I don't agree that childcare is always the answer and would argue for every woman forced into the SAHM role there is also a woman who feels forced into the WOHM role when they would love to spend more time with their children.

I know universal childcare can seem like a shortcut to equality in the workplace, but I'm not sure it's the golden bullet that will bring a desirable outcome for all mothers. Why should women (and men) feel obliged to adopt the traditional male role and put their children in childcare when they don't want to? I think any solution for these women has to be more nuanced and flexible so it enables them to have time with their children without being so heavily penalised that they are stuck as SAHMs forever or in menial jobs that don't reflect their potential.

@bumpitybumper - it won't force anybody to do anything.