Why is misgendering a big deal?

[FortunateCookie]

Hope someone can help because I’m really trying to understand why not affirming someone’s identity is that big of a deal.
I understand that it’s polite to go along with whatever someone’s chosen gender identity is, but I can’t believe that it’s actually a big problem if you don’t?
Surely if your friends and family accept your identity, it doesn’t matter if someone at work doesn’t?
Would it really make someone suicidal?
Do any of the trans organisations say why it is so important?
I just don’t get it.

One prime example of how my friend was spoken to in a shoe shop was oh we dont do those in 10, anyway they are more suited to smaller dainty feet, Disgusting that they are treated this way

Any woman with feet over size 7 will have that experience. Why do you assume its because the person is trans?

I stopped going into most shoe shops as a teen because of precisely that type of comment and every woman I've met with larger feet could tell you a similar story.

And I'm not interested in a game of whataboutery with you.

Gender identity is part of human identity. If you are alive and conscious you have a gender identity - it is the sex you feel you are. The concept of yourself as a man or a woman.
Utter nonsense. Your sex is determined when the sperm fertilises the egg.

You can feel like anything you like. But until someone invents a way to modify your chromosomes, your sex will remain the same until you die.

It was a general comment on all your posts. "Misogyny" experienced by trans identified males is not the sole thing I have commented on. You do appear to have some issues following a fast moving argument.

Sorry. I just didn't remember interacting with you before.

Wasn't particularly aware you were commenting on all of my posts. Still odd though. Of course I can't "force you."

If my 16 year says they are non binary I'd think they had too much time on their hands
What a nasty way to respond.

I genuinely don't have a gendered sense of identity. But interestingly that isn't accepted by the gender identity believers, and I'm told I must be a cis woman.

Like I said, I don't know anyone's gender identity better than they do. You do you.

I can't take anyone seriously who thinks that men are women.

That's okay.
I'm finding it slightly difficult to take you seriously because of all the caps and exclamation marks in some of your comments, if I'm honest.

This whole discussion I think has transcended beyond a level of penis-haver = man.

It is not compassion to collude in a delusion. We don't go along with sufferers of anorexia when they insist they are fat

It isn't a delusion. When people with gender dysphoria undergo treatment to appear, live, and be legally recognised and affirmed as their acquired sex, then there is evidence that they become well. They can become less depressed, more functional, more sociable, and form more friendships and relationships.

If you support an anorexic with their delusion to starve themselves they will die. It is pathological. Delusional men who want thrones do not become less disturbed even when they become kings.

May be we should start calling misogyny "womanphobia" then it might get taken seriously (you know, like the way transphobia is literal violence). Might also stop the TIMs pretending they suffer from misogyny.

Guess I’m a zombie, then.

I assume you're a woman who feels as though she is a woman.

Of course I can't "force you."

Then back off with your arrogant demand that I should lie to protect male feelings. And your emotional blackmail.

At least I'm not stating men face misogyny.🤣

Because if you aren't their whole stupid house of cards and shaky ideology collapses.

If I'm arguing that gender is a spectrum upon which people may identify, surely it reaffirms rather than counters?

It works as a counter argument to the suggestion that gender only exists as a binary. I think hardly anyone here is advocating for that.

I'm a woman who feels like a human being. I don't spend all my waking hours "feeling like a woman".

Teenagers who have been told that their gender identity overrides their sex are likely to have some disillusioning experiences though few as bad as the girl raped by a taxi driver who said that she kept telling him she was a man but he wouldn't stop.

Roses you seem very muddled, which is because you're producing TRA claims without having noticed that they are often nonsense. TERF, for example. Pick it apart and see if it hangs together.

Gender as social convention is a powerful force. Gender identity is a quite separate essentially philosophical claim that assumes everyone has an innate sense of their own gender and an identity that relies upon it, when actually it appears it's largely only trans people have such an identity.

I don't believe most TIM do sincerely think they're women. Indeed the non dysphoric fetishistic cross dressers definitely don't. They have no identification with women as a sex, rather are sexually aroused by the fantasy of being a particular porn trope.

I'm a woman because of my body and the experiences connected to my sex. I don't have a gender identity. I have a sex and a personality. Cis is insulting.

simply that Native America is possiblt the most commonly referred to culture of gender history

Multiple repetitions of one slightly misleading and very ethnocentric viewpoint does not make it accurate.
Native America is not one culture, any more than Africa or Europe have one homogeneous culture. Interpreting any ancient culture from the context of modern Western society is fraught with problems. Look at the history of anthropology for examples of "insight" proving a contemporary case which look ridiculous a generation later.

Super match I have no problem whatsoever with men wearing the clothes they want or changing their name to a more feminine one. What I DO object to is the delusion they are now WOMEN because they do these things. They have no idea at all what it is to have lived experiences as girl and women and it is hugely insulting for a member of the oppressing class to think he can identify into the oppressed class!

Men can live how they want as long as it harms no one...unfortunately with TRAd this is not the case, is it? And they will remain men, no matter what they do. To say otherwise is a delusion.

It absolutely is a delusion when these men think they actually are women.

It isn't.
#askapsychiatrist

TRAs not trad!

Then back off with your arrogant demand that I should lie to protect male feelings. And your emotional blackmail.

Super interesting. Again - male feelings. Why aren't you so angry about trans men?

I've said that IMO, it's the decent thing to do because of the effects it can have. If my description of said effects makes you feel emotional, it's not because I've blackmailed you. It's because it's genuinely very sad.

And I'm not interested in a game of whataboutery with you.

Well, I'm sure you'd know what to do in such a situation

Anyone else asserting they wouldn't use a trans persons pronouns interested in answering my question?

When people with gender dysphoria undergo treatment to appear, live, and be legally recognised and affirmed as their acquired sex, then there is evidence that they become well.

If someone is able to live in the way that makes them happy, providing only that it doesn't hurt others in the process, that is good and I rejoice with them.

But they cannot change their sex. That is "acquired" at conception and is unalterable.

What does that feel like exactly?

You don't even need to ask that question Juzza because she knows she is one. For her, feeling like a woman will be no different to knowing she is one. Because she isn't trans.

I've said that IMO, it's the decent thing to do because of the effects it can have. If my description of said effects makes you feel emotional, it's not because I've blackmailed you. It's because it's genuinely very sad.

It is abusive, manipulative emotional blackmail. I have experienced an abusive partner trying to control my behaviour with suicide threats and I will not concede here.

Trans women deal with a lot of misogyny that isn't really about your reproductive organs; sexual harassment for one.

In what way is sexual harassment not related to the possession of ovaries, vaginas and breasts? Either directly (as in "show us yer tits") or indirectly (don't employ them, they will only have babies) sexual harassment is by definition related to biological function.

That is "acquired" at conception and is unalterable.

Indeed. But you don't actually need to change that for a tans person to be able to live their life in a functional way. You can change your hormones. You can change aspects of your body, including your face with surgery - often enough to relieve dysphoria and for the average person to see them as that sex. The law will then recognise that change, as a change of sex, without having to change the unalterable 'acquired at conception' aspect.

They have no idea at all what it is to have lived experiences as girl and women and it is hugely insulting for a member of the oppressing class to think he can identify into the oppressed class!

Like I mentioned, they soon find out. But my points on this argument are:

1. Whether or not they complicate misogyny issues, they exist. Simple as. You could say that Asian people contribute to racism against black people due to the model minority ethos of the 20th century if you were an utter twat. But both Asian and trans people do exist, frankly, so you're going to have to solve any issues caused instead of just hating them for it.

2. Trans people are also very oppressed. Extremely oppressed.

3. Does this mean you don't have a problem with trans men?