I just peak-trans'd again!

[ConfessionsOfTeenageDramaQueen]

Who knew peak-transing could be like multiple orgasms?

Anyway just have to share my story. I was just removed from a feminist Facebook group after someone posted about Trans claiming “they are women” and I replied they weren’t.

Someone then called me a “terf” and “trash” and then > I < got removed despite the fact I didn't use any slurs, call anyone names, just stated that me agreeing that trans-women are women is tantamount to claiming 2+2=5 in Orwell's 1984.

I'd peak-trans'd long ago but this is the icing on my womanly (cause y'know, wimminz love to bake) cake.

"Well, you're at odds with most trans activist organisations then @GibbertyFlibbert."

Maybe. I am a woman. Like most women here, I value spaces which are used only by women. But I don't believe that the stupid XX/XY nonsense is practical nor does it include and exclude the right people. For one, I don't want to be sharing those spaces with trans men. They are men. They belong with other men.

"Prove me wrong"

I think you need to prove your side to us first. The source of your info on intersex conditions is pretty suspect, this is the front page: secondtype.tripod.com/index.htm

I simply have to pick up on this Gibberty (I know others have but I don't see an answer):

"Anyone whose ID (driving licence, passport and bank account etc) is female. In short, anyone who lives and works as a woman" - whatever about "living as a woman" (presumably that means handing over said "female" passport at the airport), wtf do you mean by "working as a woman"?

Are we back in the 1950s. Again.

I just don't want any penis-havers in women-only spaces.

No Peen, no problem-o!

Can we get "penis haver" on the documents?

Also we are back to the circular definitions as usual:

"What is the definition of a woman" - anyone who's driving licence says they are female.

Ok.

What is the definition of female?

"Wow so you would deny transwomen who haven't yet managed to complete their legal transition their womanhood? Isn't that transphobic?"

No. In England it takes ten minutes online to change name by deed poll and driving licence, passport and bank account can be done a few days later. I said nothing about completion of the legal process - birth certificates are a pig to change.

Your sex is determined by your chromosomes, XX being female and XY being male. This can usually be determined by observing physical characteristics at birth, if not then dna testing can clarify. Rarely some individuals have a disorder of sexual development (intersex) where their sex cannot easily be determined. That's it. It's not complicated, and a lot more straightforward than some guff about documentation and "living as a woman".

Picassospaintbrush
Re the DSM. I was a bit surprised, because like the person I was replying to, I wasn't aware that the The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders would have fetishes in it. I was aware that gender dysphoria or gender identity disorder was in there, but not transvestism.

But I don't believe that the stupid XX/XY nonsense

You mean the basis of human evolution?

Lol...How do you think you got here exactly?

You can change your name by deedpoll, you can't change your legal sex (at present) until after a 2 year transition period. You said their documents need to say female in order for them to be a woman.

GibbertyFlibbert

And you will see it is a paraphilia and therefore totally different to the issue of gender identity

I was replying to your post here where you said:

I am struggling with this AGP you mention. What is it? Can you please tell me where I can find it in DSM 5 so that I can check your claim that it is a male fetish?

AGP=autogynephilia= taking fetishistic cross-dressing/transvestism to its extreme

*Sorry posted too soon. So actually you are denying womanhood to anybody who hasn't get managed to complete the legal process.

Gibberty - biologically, a woman is an adult human being with a female (i.e. child birthing) reproductive system, regardless of whether this reproductive system is fully functioning or complete and who also has no trace of a male reproductive system. This is a watertight definition of the word woman in the biological sense, in my experience. For good reasons we also include a small number of intersex people in the legal definition of "woman" even though they are arguably not strictly female in the biological sense. Just because there is ambiguity over 1% of people we call "women" legally and socially actually being women biologically does not mean that there is ambiguity when it comes to the other 99% of people in this category. And herein lies the problem with transwomen.

The vast vast majority of transwomen are unambiguously male - and given they are also adult and human, this makes them men. Men because they meet the definition of the word "man" in every good quality dictionary in existence, not just in English but in every language on the planet that I'm aware of. If you meet the definition of the word "man" and don't meet the definition of the word "woman" in every good quality dictionary then that makes you a man and not a woman.

Having said this, many words have one mainstream use but can also be used to mean something very very different in certain niche areas. In the niche area of gender identity politics, it is arguable that "woman" has come to have another meaning. But this is not the mainstream meaning. I am a a professional linguist and can confirm that I have come across the word "woman" thousands of times in my professional career and it has only ever meant what all the dictionaries say it means. An adult human with a child birthing reproductive system, even where this system is incomplete or not fully functioning.

Exactly Luna. How transphobic

I'm still confused at the idea that women can have penises but a male name on their driving licence is a no-no.

male brains and female brains definitely exist. neurone cells have nucleii which contain the same copy of chromosomes as the rest of the body. each cell will have xx or xy chromosomes, matching the rest of the body.

there is brain plasticity which means the brain adapts according to the input it receives, studied, for example in those london cabbies who take the knowledge.

"Re the DSM. I was a bit surprised, because like the person I was replying to, I wasn't aware that the The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders would have fetishes in it. I was aware that gender dysphoria or gender identity disorder was in there, but not transvestism."

Yes, as quite different conditions. Personally I am happy to accept as women those with gender dysphoria but transvestites make me uncomfortable in female only spaces. The problem is that insisting on a medical diagnosis is both oppressive and impractical when it comes to entry to same sex spaces. But the practicality is that those who change their ID (almost?) all have gender dysphoria but (almost?) none of the transvestites will as defined by the DSM. I know people don't understand why I say I am comfortable with ID rather than biology but it is based on meeting literally hundreds of trans people. ID works in practice. It is why self-ID doesn't cause any issues.

For the record, I am against changing the definition in the Equality Act from gender reassignment to gender identity. I favour adding gender identity as an additional protected characteristic but with more exemptions than are in for gender reassignment.

"male brains and female brains definitely exist. neurone cells have nucleii which contain the same copy of chromosomes as the rest of the body. each cell will have xx or xy chromosomes, matching the rest of the body."

Factually incorrect in so many ways

Explain a few of those ways, please?

"An adult human with a child birthing reproductive system, even where this system is incomplete or not fully functioning." includes most trans women

"An adult human with a child birthing reproductive system, even where this system is incomplete or not fully functioning." includes most trans women

How so exactly?

Not it doesn't. Do you understand what 'child birthing' means?

But the practicality is that those who change their ID (almost?) all have gender dysphoria but (almost?) none of the transvestites will as defined by the DSM.

That's because the current rules state that a diagnosis of gender dysphoria is required to get a GRC. Under self-ID the transvestites would be able to get one as well.

"Explain a few of those ways, please?"

Mosaicism. Genotypes other than XX/XY. Various intersex conditions like AIS in which the typical genotype expression is suppressed

Not it doesn't. Do you understand what 'child birthing' means?

Does it mean spunking into a sock?