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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I am a science teacher teaching secondary sex education and genetics

999 replies

Clairetree1 · 10/06/2018 10:12

Ever single time. Every single time. Every single time.

I am being asked how men turn into women.

I say they can't. They turn into transwomen. These are men who change their bodies to be as much like women as possible, but are still men.

Every single time I teach pregnancy I am asked how men can do it.

Every single time we go through genetics I get a shocked response for saying "this is male, this is female"

Every single time I make any distinction between male and female I am asked "are you allowed to say that?

I equate being ordered to teach that men can become woman to previous generations of teachers being ordered to teach nazi race science.

I am quite sure I will be sacked one day

OP posts:
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LangCleg · 10/06/2018 16:20

so hang on, which part of the fuzzy peak does having a cock and balls put you on?

I thought the cock and balls was the fuzzy peak. Or is that tasteless?!

GibbertyFlibbert · 10/06/2018 16:20

"let's leave intersex people out of this as they have so heartily requested."

How convenient for you to leave out part of the evidence that sex is a bimodal distribution, not binary.

Bowlofbabelfish · 10/06/2018 16:21

gibberty

I’m very interested. Please could you educate me as to the mechanism by which this happens. How does every nucleate cell in the body go from XY to XX for example?

If you have a plausible mechanism then this is world shattering stuff and you’d be up for a nobel

TamarRiver · 10/06/2018 16:21

GibbertyFlibbert. I'm glad people like you exist. Not all heros wear capes.

Hyppolyta · 10/06/2018 16:21

Tamar noones argueing people cant change gender.

I chanhed mine three times while writing that sentence.

However, humans are male or female. These arent fuzzy sets, and that cant be changed.

Gender is fluid.
Sex is not.

Rather suprised one who claims to teach science doesnt know this.

ReluctantCamper · 10/06/2018 16:22

you are actually making me chuckle GibbertyFlibbert. what's the weather like on your planet?

the science says you can change a person's chromosomes from XX to XY?

The science says you can change a persons pelvis from a male to a female shape?

OldCrone · 10/06/2018 16:22

As for your list I thought we were talking about crimes in female bathrooms not crimes committed by trans people in general.

daimbars
Your comment about female bathrooms (are you American) was a reply to mine where I said:
The legal fiction of 'transwomen are women' means men who want to assault women get access to their victims more easily.

You replied: There have been zero reported cases in the UK of trans women assaulting women in female bathrooms.

So no, we were not talking about assaults in female toilets, we were talking about assaults in general.

Clairetree1 · 10/06/2018 16:23

wow - lots to read back through.

To answer a few questions, the students I have taught sex education to this week are either year 9 or year 10 (all 14-16)

Their attitude to homosexuality is generally total acceptance, they mostly never give it a second thought. Once or twice a year we might get a student use the word "gay" in a derogatory tone, it will be followed up at some length......

And thanks for the warning not to be careful not to be identified.

With year 10, who are doing GCSE courses, I do mostly refer back to the content of the specification.

Year 9 is different, this is their one chance to freely ask a science teacher about sex and reproduction during their secondary school career, so i encourage questions, don't stick to the spec, and promise to answer anything. There are times I get so many questions I only have time to write them down, and offer students a chance to come back after school for answers to some of them.

For example, you may be surprised to know that pregnancy isn't on the GCSE specification any more, so if I just stuck to the spec, there would be nothing taught about pregnancy

OP posts:
Bowlofbabelfish · 10/06/2018 16:23

And please do explain how the existence of say an XX female with CAH proves that sex isn’t binary? While you’re at it, can you also explain why a foetus with severe holoprocencephaly proves that the default number of human eyes is not two?

Please do lay out the mechanisms.

placemats · 10/06/2018 16:25

Tamar Can I ask respectfully what you think about vaccinations for small babies?

Do you think vaccinations can cause autism?

LangCleg · 10/06/2018 16:26

GibbertyFlibbert. I'm glad people like you exist. Not all heros wear capes.

LOL.

GibbertyFlibbert · 10/06/2018 16:26

"How does every nucleate cell in the body go from XY to XX for example? "

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23422775 for example

bqhl · 10/06/2018 16:27

Not all heroes wear capes? GrinGrinGrin

Seriously when did we get invaded by marvel wannabes?

UpstartCrow · 10/06/2018 16:27

pregnancy isn't on the GCSE specification any more

WTF. I am seriously concerned for the future of girls. The religious Right may as well be in charge.

placemats · 10/06/2018 16:27

Not pregnancy, OP, but reproductive organs are.

placemats · 10/06/2018 16:28

Though not necessarily human or mammalian, I meant to add.

Hyppolyta · 10/06/2018 16:30

Gibberty I think you need someone to explain that article to you.

At no point does the chromosomes change from XY to XX.

Because thats impossible.

ReluctantCamper · 10/06/2018 16:30

How convenient for you to leave out part of the evidence that sex is a bimodal distribution, not binary

sigh

there used to be a rather lovely CBeebies presenter who was born with no lower right arm.

her existence does not mean medics faint with surprise every time a baby is delivered with two arms that are fully developed below the elbow.

LangCleg · 10/06/2018 16:31

Seriously when did we get invaded by marvel wannabes?

Surely you mean accidental passers-by who just so happen to be science teachers and Marvel wannabes?!

ReluctantCamper · 10/06/2018 16:31

GibbertyFlibbert. I'm glad people like you exist. Not all heros wear capes

not every one can spell heroes either apparently

GibbertyFlibbert · 10/06/2018 16:31

"Absolutely! Teachers need to stick to the science. "

Definitely and that means not teaching that sex is dimorphic but teaching that it is a spectrum with a bimodal distribution and, by convention, we label the fuzzy sets around the peaks male and female but in reality sex is more complicated than that.

TamarRiver · 10/06/2018 16:31

Placemats (sorry, I haven't yet learnt how to reply to individuals to get your name in bold etc) in answer to your questions it's a loud hell no! I paid to get my children extra vaccinations not on the NHS. I'm very very pro vaccines. I don't understand why you would ask me that though?

Clairetree1 · 10/06/2018 16:32

Now to respond to this

YABVU. I am also a secondary school science teacher. I think it's totally immoral to push your political or religious opinions onto impressionable pupils who look up to you. Scans have shown differences in the brains of transpeople, it's a scientific fact. I am stunned that you equated teaching this to the nazis. Your intolerance disgusts me, if you were my colleague, I'd make a complaint about you to SLT.

It is not a political or religious opinion, that males can't change into females, it is a pretty unequivocal scientific fact. The fact that the LAW says they can, doesn't make it scientifically true.

You are completely wrong about brain scans, take a look at the history of this hypothesis for yourself.

IMPARTIAL scientists researching this originally thought there might be some truth in it, researched it further and disproved it.

DISPROVED IT!!!!

however, the original preliminary research has been seized on and almost sanctified, and further very dodgy studies have claimed to back it up, but not studies with impartial scientists, or any scientific rigour.

why would I not beleive it, if it were true?

I am a scientist, I follow modern research in all sorts of areas, I see ideas suggested, grown, developed, investigated, proved or disproved all the time. I've seen that happen with the idea of the transexual brain.

Like all other scientists, when the first preliminary evidence came out, I thought, O, interesting..... then when it was disproved I accepted it had been disproved, like many other interesting scientific ideas before it.

i don't want to be rude, but if you are a scientist yourself, you are the one imposing religious and political opinions, not me, I am teaching science.

And yes I know there are people who would report me, and one day probably will do, I am fully prepared for that, but I won't change what I am teaching.

It IS comparable to nazi race science, where a scientist could be sacked, or worse, for not teaching the new, legal, but scientifically incorrect "science"

OP posts:
Bowlofbabelfish · 10/06/2018 16:33

That’s an incredibly rare case of mosaicism. It’s not a case of someone changing sex.

I asked you how a male can change Into a female. Can you please explain to me simply how that happens? Im very interested.

placemats · 10/06/2018 16:34

Did you now!