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I am a science teacher teaching secondary sex education and genetics
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Clairetree1 · 10/06/2018 10:12

Ever single time. Every single time. Every single time.

I am being asked how men turn into women.

I say they can't. They turn into transwomen. These are men who change their bodies to be as much like women as possible, but are still men.

Every single time I teach pregnancy I am asked how men can do it.

Every single time we go through genetics I get a shocked response for saying "this is male, this is female"

Every single time I make any distinction between male and female I am asked "are you allowed to say that?

I equate being ordered to teach that men can become woman to previous generations of teachers being ordered to teach nazi race science.

I am quite sure I will be sacked one day

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Terfulike · 10/06/2018 14:41

In case anyone's interested in the governments stance. Here is the DfE guidance which exam boards use.

I've put together all relevant sentences I could find for all year groups 1-11.

I am a science teacher teaching secondary sex education and genetics I am a science teacher teaching secondary sex education and genetics
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ReluctantCamper · 10/06/2018 14:45

I find it pretty offensive that people are suggesting that mental health issues are ‘bad’

yes, this.

the sight of TRAs trying to insist that gender dysphoria isn't a mental illness when it clearly is, just to try to bolster their case, and thereby potentially denying treatment to sufferers is frankly sickening.

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ReluctantCamper · 10/06/2018 14:47

There are a number of people who post on this board who suffer / have suffered from gender dysphoria, some have transitioned, some haven't. However what I've always taken from their posts is that they freely acknowledge that they needed and benefitted from counselling to help them come to their decision.

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Terfulike · 10/06/2018 14:52

Oh well I guess this has turned from a thread about Freedom of speech in schools/How to deliver the Biology curriculum in 2018 to a discussion about mental illness in trans people

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ReluctantCamper · 10/06/2018 14:58

Sorry Terfulike. If I'm understanding your screen shots correctly, there's absolutely nothing in the curriculum to prevent teachers correctly teaching human biology.

That is humans are mammals, there are are two sexes:

Males who produce small mobile gametes
Females who produce larger, immobile gametes and are capable of gestating young

an adult human male is a man
an adult human female is a woman

any teacher who feels under pressure to teach their pupils otherwise should enquire if their school wishes their pupils to pass their biology exams.

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placemats · 10/06/2018 15:00

Everyone knows you cannot change sex, so can we at least stop pretending this can be done. It will never happen.

I can't begin to understand the cognitive dissonance going on here with some posters. Most humans now agree that the earth is not flat. That there are no green men on Mars and that Paul McCartney didn't die in a road accident.

Also climate change is real and is happening and that plastics waste is propelling this and the great sixth extinction.

I'm also of the belief that some of the posters on this board who are saying trans women are women are on other boards, such as anti vaccination boards telling those who don't want to vaccinate their children they are stupid and anti science and anti biology.

The mind boggles at these posters.

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WalkLikeAManTalkLikeAMan · 10/06/2018 15:00

Trans activists will now lobby the exam boards. Should we get in there first?

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daimbars · 10/06/2018 15:00

Sorry to harp back to Section 28 again but if the problem is teaching kids legal fictions such as trans women are women then why is the legal fiction of two lesbian women both being a child's mother any different?

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Pratchet · 10/06/2018 15:08

Terfulike I get a major transactivist feel from you

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ReluctantCamper · 10/06/2018 15:09

not a comparable example daimbars. 2 mothers is not a legal fiction.

now something like a corporation being viewed as a person for some purposes would be comparable.

we don't teach that in school because it would be bloody confusing for younger children. I expect it's taught at A level.

I would be perfectly happy with the 'TWAW' legal fiction being taught in an A level law class.

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Terfulike · 10/06/2018 15:10

Exactly, so this is not a particular area that should be worrying us ie the teaching of Biology.

However, other posts have me very worried indeed about a wholly more sinister aspect of all this: it appears to me that there may be completely different facts being put forward in different lessons, even within the same school.

This I personally find horrific!

It would seem that it is perfectly possible for a pupil to go to a Biology lesson in the morning (where truth would prevail), have a tutor group PHSE lesson after pm registration, where they discuss the "fact" that some women are born in the wrong body (or whatever nonsense the PHSE lesson convener has received from Stonewall that week (haven't read it, must do so)). PHSE lessons are often delivered by form tutors, often non-scientists, and, in my experience, the lesson plan is not their own but sent from the teacher who is in charge of PHSE - again, not necessarily a science teacher.

How abusive is that? To tell a child one thing, then tell the child the opposite? How is this non-joined-up thinking being allowed?

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daimbars · 10/06/2018 15:11

Reluctant biologically two women being a child's parents is impossible but legally it is recognised.

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OldCrone · 10/06/2018 15:13

daimbars
The legal fiction of two lesbian women being a child's mother affects nobody except the two women and the child. It means the child has two legal parents, similar to being adopted. (But I know you know that).

The legal fiction of 'transwomen are women' means men who want to assault women get access to their victims more easily. What are the positives of this legal fiction?

I don't suppose you'll answer because you've failed to answer any of my other questions, and I'd still like an answer to the one from my last two posts:

And these trans people who are not distressed. Have they taken cross-sex hormones and had surgery? If so, were they distressed before doing so? If they have not medically transitioned, in what way are they 'trans' as opposed to gender-non-conforming or cross-dressers?

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placemats · 10/06/2018 15:15

Trans activists will now lobby the exam boards. Should we get in there first?

I can absolutely assure you that will NEVER happen. There is a huge amount of money in this business. OCR, EDExcel and AQA. All big players in the GCSE/GCE exams.

Never going to happen.

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Terfulike · 10/06/2018 15:16

Terfulike I get a major transactivist feel from you

Take that back now Pratchet. How dare you.

If youre going to the London meeting feel free to appraoch me, Im the 53 year old with 20 year old daughter in tow. Both of us have long hair.

Glad to discuss there if you wish.

Tell me one single thing I have said that is pro-TRA or anti-GC feminist please?

Back up your appalling accusation. How would you like to be accused of being a transactivist?

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ReluctantCamper · 10/06/2018 15:16

I guess it all boils down to if you think 'woman' is something you can perform daimbars.

'Mother', you can perform. Be female, be a parent. hey presto, most people will accord you some form of the word mother. It might have a 'step' or a 'birth' in front of it, but mother you will get.

'Woman' - it's bloody sexist to say you can perform that, and also 100% wrong. It's conflating femininity with biology. Woman means an adult human of the sex class that can produce eggs and gestate young. It doesn't mean flicky hair and nail varnish.

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ReluctantCamper · 10/06/2018 15:19

chances of getting the human biology syllabus on this changed without some kind of revolutionary change in the actual commonly agreed understanding of the science?

zero

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Terfulike · 10/06/2018 15:19

You've totally upset me, I'm shaking.

Im supposed to be helping my middle daughter with the Arrhenius equation foe her ALevel Chem when she gets back from her pub job, so thanks for that. I'm going to find it hard to concentrate now.

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daimbars · 10/06/2018 15:20

OldCrone

There have been zero reported cases in the UK of trans women assaulting women in female bathrooms. People keep insisting it will happen, yet trans women have been legal women for 13 years now and it hasn't.

If a man wants to assault a woman in a female space he isn't doing to check if the latest proposed change to the GRC process has become law before doing so. He is just going to do it.

I am not saying there is not a certain amount of worry and distress about being trans. Being different isn't easy, same as being gay. But all the trans people I know are comfortable in their identity.

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Bowlofbabelfish · 10/06/2018 15:21

There have been zero reported cases in the UK of trans women assaulting women in female bathrooms. People keep insisting it will happen, yet trans women have been legal women for 13 years now and it hasn't.

Wrong. Mark Lazarus.

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placemats · 10/06/2018 15:21

Sorry to harp back to Section 28 again but if the problem is teaching kids legal fictions such as trans women are women then why is the legal fiction of two lesbian women both being a child's mother any different?

What has that got to do with biology and sex education?

Section 28 is basically regarding gay men, with a nod to lesbianism and bi sexuality.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_28

Gay men, heterosexuals, lesbians, trans, who have a baby via surrogacy have to acknowledge the birth mother on the certificate. A lesbian woman who has a baby via sperm donation does not have to put the father's name on the birth certificate. Biology dictates that gay men will never become pregnant.

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ReluctantCamper · 10/06/2018 15:22

I did not read your posts like that at all - I got what you meant.

there's a lot of paranoia and calling out on here. It's fucking annoying and pointlessly devisive.

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WalkLikeAManTalkLikeAMan · 10/06/2018 15:23

A Transwoman, just a few days ago, posted on FB that they assaulted a woman in a changing room. The transwoman threw clothing at staff.

There is an investigation currently being undertaken by the shop, reported in the press.

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daimbars · 10/06/2018 15:25

terfulike to be fair I think Pratchet must mean someone else I certainly don't get TRA vibes from you!

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ltk · 10/06/2018 15:25

Terfu is logically discussing the teaching of sex across the curriculum in schools. In primary the subject comes under pshe and is open to being taught very unscientifically indeed. In secondary, as Terfu pointed out, chn can be told one thing in science and its exact opposite in pshe. We need to address the teaching of PSHE/SRE as well as science.

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