I am a science teacher teaching secondary sex education and genetics

[Clairetree1]

Ever single time. Every single time. Every single time.

I am being asked how men turn into women.

I say they can't. They turn into transwomen. These are men who change their bodies to be as much like women as possible, but are still men.

Every single time I teach pregnancy I am asked how men can do it.

Every single time we go through genetics I get a shocked response for saying "this is male, this is female"

Every single time I make any distinction between male and female I am asked "are you allowed to say that?

I equate being ordered to teach that men can become woman to previous generations of teachers being ordered to teach nazi race science.

I am quite sure I will be sacked one day

[SeahorsesAREhorses]

Well said Clairtree.

We all have to be brave, and we all have to stand up for truth.

[daimbars]

Scientifically the existence of a gay gene is still debatable so where is the resistance to teaching about homosexuality?

[daimbars]

OP if you are seriously comparing the phenomenon of being transgender to Nazi race science then you are in the wrong job.

[mancheeze]

OP if you are seriously comparing the phenomenon of being transgender to Nazi race science then you are in the wrong job.

You're a willful misinterpreter you are. That's NOT what OP said at all.

You're extremely untrustworthy and incapable of having a rational, honest discussion.

I'm not surprised. I deal with people like you on a daily basis on social media.

[daimbars]

mancheeze

The OP said at 5.17

Hence my reference to nazi race science in my original post, and my determination never ever to go along with it for an easy life.

[SeahorsesAREhorses]

The phenomenon of being transgender seems to be dying your hair blue and shouting at women. That aside, I think Clairtree was comparing dangerous pseudo science and the shutting down of dissenting research and opinions to race science.

[OrchidInTheSun]

There you go again daimbar, deliberating misrepresenting what other people wrote, twisting their meaning, thereby neatly illustrating Claire's point: "Two pressure groups push ridiculous demonstrable false, politically motivated lies and propaganda in our society, in my experience, both dreamt up insane fictions, both who can quote misguided or sometimes downright malicious "research" and "science" to bolster up their fantasy and oppress more vulnerable people"

While the inability to edit on MN is sometimes irritating, it's a godsend for people who make things up. Luckily, most of MN have good reading comprehension skills

[OrchidInTheSun]

Men can't become women daimbar. Arguing that they can when it's patently untrue just makes you look a bit thick.

[Bowlofbabelfish]

daim - you keep using the technique where you twist what the OP or PP has said and then hide it in your opening phrase so it looks like that’s what their starting position was. You thus require the other person to spend time explaining g that actually, no... instead of putting their point across

The problem with that is that while it works verbally, and it’s great for detailing, it doesn’t work written down, because people can go back and check what was said.

So no, that’s not what OP said. And we see you.

[daimbars]

Transgender people exist Orchid. Stating that trans people are spreading 'politically motivated lies and propaganda' makes me think you have something against them.

[Bowlofbabelfish]

However, I have come across very few instances such as this, where the wrong science is deliberately consistently and maliciously fabricated in order to further the political ends of one group of people at the expense of another.

This is what OP said. That scientists will be open to any theory if its got evidence to support it - and I can confirm that yes this is true. Do you think stuff like quantum physics is logical? The stuff that lot work with turns your view of reality on its head - it’s totally out to lunch, so they go on what the data says. They ARE open minded. If someone found a specific marker set for being trans the reaction would be ‘gosh that’s interesting let’s explore those pathways...’

But no one has. And the ‘science’ thats Being pushed is weaponised - that’s what OP is pissed off anout. That’s what I’m pissed off about. Science is neutral. It’s not got a political opinion - its supposed to be about beautiful impartial truth and when I see it be sullied and tainted by political groups or ideological groups I feel pretty vexed.

[daimbars]

I equate being ordered to teach that men can become woman to previous generations of teachers being ordered to teach nazi race science.

First of all the OP isn't being ordered to teach this. Terfulike helpfully shared the GCSE and A Level biology prospectus at 10/6 at 11.52 and said she has been marking GCSE and A Level biology for years without gender reassignment coming up once.

Therefore the OP is talking about children asking her questions about trans folk. My point is you are in the wrong job if you refuse to give children an unbiased and balanced answer if they ask a specific question. If gender reassignment isn't on the curriculum then the only reference to Nazi Science is coming from the OP's own prejudices.

[daimbars]

The OP even said on 10/6 at 10.22

In the school it has never been mentioned in the context of science teaching.

[Italiangreyhound]

@GibbertyFlibbert

'You mean a transplanted womb'

Which poor woman is going to be talked in to selling her womb?

"It seems that biologically women aren't that special and a womb, ovum etc. can be created within the confines of existing medical knowledge. I am not aware, however, of any comparable success in creating sperm."

Go and Google 'Do you need sperm to clone?', because you do not.

Although what the scientists can whip up in their labs may be fascinating it doen't make males into females or vice versa.

Why are you so keen to see woman as obsolete?

[Italiangreyhound]

Every human on the planet is born of a woman!

Women are special. But so are men. Our parts played in reproduction are amazing. But that is not all that makes us human.

All humans are important We should not need to twist science to make an argument for us all being important, special etc. But we are different.

Maybe read Brave New World if you want to see what it looks like when we take reproduction into science fiction.

[FermatsTheorem]

It's a splendid illustration of the fact that this kind of argument is like wrestling with an eel to see the breath taking juxtaposition of Bowl's post pointing out the mendacious debating ploy of twisting an opponent's words to say something that they haven't at any point said, followed immediately by Daim claiming, yet again that her opponents deny the existence of trans people, when no one has said this and in fact other people on this thread (myself included) have gone to great lengths to explain that, no, this is not what we are saying, every single time Daim makes that spurious claim.

It's exhausting and deliberately derailing.

I can recommend the book "Merchants of Doubt" on the way big tobacco and big oil put huge amounts of money into confusing the issues over lung cancer and anthropogenic climate change respectively. Many of the techniques we see here (from low level "astroturfing" all the way up to getting op-ed pieces in newspapers and even setting up spurious research institutes eg the Heartland Institute, or funding research grants) are techniques that have been used over and over again by powerful lobby groups with a vested interest in suppressing science.

[TimeLady]

I'd like to thank the OP, Clairetree1, for starting this thread. It's not only highlighted an important misconception amongst our children, but it's also given an opportunity for the pseudoscience behind the political transgender programme to be thoroughly debunked.

I'm pretty sure the aim of the science-deniers is to get this thread to 1000 posts asap and then off the Mumsnet radar, but they've helpfully shown themselves up in the process. I can well believe the lurkers out there will have been peak-transed reading some of the nonsense spouted.

And there will be another thread, and another thread, until this nonsense is stopped.

Scientists on Mumsnet, I salute you

[Bowlofbabelfish]

My point is you are in the wrong job if you refuse to give children an unbiased and balanced answer

You would be. However OP is giving them current best knowledge science facts. So she is clearly in the correct job.

Her job is to teach biology - biological questions are within her remit. Her remit is NOT to unpick the sociology behind the trans ideology for her pupils, that is for a different speciality to do.

Nothing OP has said indicates she is doing anything other than teaching the children in her classes the curriculum and factual content.

[daimbars]

The OP said on 10/6 at 10.22

In the school it has never been mentioned in the context of science teaching.

Making the whole thread irrelevant!

[OrchidInTheSun]

I know they exist daim. There you go again, deliberately misinterpreting what someone has typed

[borntobequiet]

Scientifically the existence of a gay gene is still debatable so where is the resistance to teaching about homosexuality?
Eh? Homosexuality is not part of the GCSE Science curriculum, as far as I know. Happy to be enlightened if it is.

[daimbars]

The OP says in the OP

I equate being ordered to teach that men can become woman to previous generations of teachers being ordered to teach nazi race science.

Then says on 10/6 at 10.22

In the school it has never been mentioned in the context of science teaching.

Which is it OP? Who is ordering you to teach men become women outside of your biology class?

[Bowlofbabelfish]

Selective quoting there daim because the op then says, However in the school policy, not refering to transwomen as women is listed as transphobia.

[daimbars]

Bowl The school policy will be referring to transgender colleagues which was spoken about earlier in the thread. Of course the OP should refer to a trans woman colleague as a woman. Are you really saying she shouldn't?

[OldCrone]

The school policy will be referring to transgender colleagues which was spoken about earlier in the thread. Of course the OP should refer to a trans woman colleague as a woman.

If there is a transwoman teacher in the school, then the children may well have questions about whether a man can become a woman. It is her duty as a science teacher to tell the children the truth, that no, a man cannot become a woman.