I am a science teacher teaching secondary sex education and genetics

[Clairetree1]

Ever single time. Every single time. Every single time.

I am being asked how men turn into women.

I say they can't. They turn into transwomen. These are men who change their bodies to be as much like women as possible, but are still men.

Every single time I teach pregnancy I am asked how men can do it.

Every single time we go through genetics I get a shocked response for saying "this is male, this is female"

Every single time I make any distinction between male and female I am asked "are you allowed to say that?

I equate being ordered to teach that men can become woman to previous generations of teachers being ordered to teach nazi race science.

I am quite sure I will be sacked one day

[mancheeze]

And the biology is that sex is not bimorphic but is a bimodal spectrum with male and female representing the sets around each peak and a possibility for each person that sex is mis-assigned. That's the science.

Clearly false. Here's a twitter thread breaking down how transactivists used a couple studies to claim this and how the author of these papers didn't even claim sex was spectrum.

twitter.com/TriciaFrasman/status/1006161802823159809

It just goes to show that you can't really have a scientific conversation with transactivists who pick words out of papers without having a clue as to what the researcher actually said.

[titchy]

Not all humans are fertile.

Didn't say they were. But (and here's the science bit), mammals' sex is classified by reference to which reproductive group they are of. Whether they can reproduce doesn't matter, it's how mammals are classified. It's a definition. Sorry that it doesn't suit you but it is what it is. Same as 'chien' is French for dog. I can deny it all I like, doesn't mean it ain't so.

[pombear]

Wow daim, you don't get out much then other than on this forum. I'd take a wander around other social media (and if you tell me 'that's not the real world' then the same would apply here!).

I think it may be the LibDemLGBT transwoman rep at the moment who is telling people they have been biologically female since they were born.

Many trans activist transwomen are appropriating the word 'female' now, not just 'woman'. How do you decouple 'female anatomy' from 'female' if transwomen are using the word 'female'?

[Ereshkigal]

I've not heard any trans person object to the use of 'male' and 'female' anatomy when correctly anatomy. Where has any trans person said this?

You haven't looked very far.

[Rufustheyawningreindeer]

Would they actually say 'male sperm' though

Or just sperm

[Ereshkigal]

Not all humans are fertile.

Irrelevant. The human species depends on reproduction.

[OldCrone]

Gibberty
The Daily Mail article is about the actions of people before transition. Irrelevant.
What do you mean - 'before transition'? You don't have to make any modifications to your body to be trans.

[Ereshkigal]

Male - of the (only) sex that can produce small motile gametes (sperm). Female - of the (only) sex that can produce large gametes (ova)

[pombear]

Let me make something perfectly clear: my primary & secondary sex characteristics are female. My blood chemistry is female. My bio markers fall in the female range. My birth certificate and medical notes say I’m female. However, that’s irrelevant.

Daim I give you Sarah Brown, Lib Dem LGBT rep.

If Sarah's primary sex characteristics are female. How do you define the 'female' or 'male' anatomy for science when Sarah appropriates and demands the definition for (if Sarah has had surgery) an inverted penis and potential parts of Sarah's bowel standing in for a vagina?

How do you do science if Sarah's demands are taken into consideration?

[Ereshkigal]

What do you mean - 'before transition'?

Gibberty has their own arbitrary and irrelevant definition of "transition". Like the other TRAs here.

[thebewilderness]

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

― Upton Sinclair

[pombear]

Thanks for the reminder thebewilderness!

Some women are good at standing above the parapet.

Some of us donate.

Some do amazing PR to get people talking

Some talk to friends and family

And some of us are happy to whittle on here on Mumsnet, not necessarily for the existing posters but for the lurkers like I was. I may not be doing it well, certainly not as articulate as I've seen you and others do for years and years, but we're here, whittling on, for all of us

[TimeLady]

862 posts and counting. My guess is the science-deniers want the last word on this thread.

[vickyjgo]

It is so sad when a GCSE explanation of gender and sex is used to justify a basic "belief" that trans women are not exactly what they say they are from their knowledge of who they are i.e. that trans men are men and trans women are women. science does see that gender is a biological process in the womb which occurs at a different time to other biological processes defining, for example, external genitalia. But honestly I know science is a process of discovery and we are in the early days of exploring this subject. When I read these posts I am reminded that science proved the world to be a sphere long before people actually believed it, and a lot of people got burned at the stake! So if I was a teacher I would encourage children to question everything and open their minds - that is what inspirational teaching is all about. I think accepting trans people for who they are is liberating - I choose love.

[daimbars]

vickyjgo lovely post thank you ❤️ I was starting to lose faith in humanity!

[Ereshkigal]

There's no GCSE explanation here. Babelfish is a scientist working in this area.

[Picassospaintbrush]

Are we back on hormonal washes again?

[Ereshkigal]

I choose reality and truth. I don't choose lies and gaslighting and male dominance.

[Pratchet]

It's so sad when biology teachers teach biology? Mkay

[AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth]

Science = Love

Serious fucking problem with the education system

[OrchidInTheSun]

Is it time for Barracker's poem again?

[OldCrone]

science does see that gender is a biological process in the womb


a lot of people got burned at the stake!
I hope that's not a threat.

[titchy]

biological process in the womb which occurs at a different time to other biological processes defining, for example, external genitalia.

Nope - determined at the moment of conception.

Love is lovely, respect is lovely. But if you're born with a Y chromosome you're Male and always will be. But let's please broaden the definition of Male to include those who enjoying knitting and wearing lipstick and high heels.

[thebewilderness]

vickyjgo

I respect your right to believe as many unpossible things before breakfast as it take for you to navigate this hostile environment men have created in every society on the planet.
However, lying to others is inexcusable.

[TornFromTheInside]

Science as we go along
We make it up, so can't be wrong
I say I'm femme, so must be true
Though you've no nuts, and I have two

Let not facts stand in our way
I am precisely what I say
Lovely legs and pretty frock
Take no notice of my cock

Let's all embrace, and share a space
a changing room's the starting place
You might be female, but I am too
So you won't mind if I share your loo

Genetic codes won't define me
I'll stamp my feet and make it be
That I am not an X or Y
I'll won't hear a word of 'you're a guy'