Twitter taking action against accounts that deadname the Soham child murderer?

[LangCleg]

Yes, apparently it is.

twitter.com/pamelacuna/status/1005072367918477314

(See second reply.)

That's a good question, LangCleng. I suspect it is.

If it is completely automated, it would make sense. Because you get outrages like this and the system would be easily gamed by those in the know.

IIRC one of the reasons Huntley was able to commit his crimes because of issues with criminal records checks. And now this is about deadnaming? Can no-one see the parallels there?

issues with criminal records checks

Yep. DBS procedures were overhauled in the wake of the verdict.

Can no-one see the parallels there?

That's one of the reasons why a media campaign to send LH to a women's prison would be unlikely.

issues with criminal records checks

Yes I think the linking up of systems nationwide was a response to soham.

As many of us have pointed out, almostvall our child safeguarding rules have come about after loopholes were exposed in the wake of crimes against children.

Does anyone know how self ID and dead naming would work with DBS checks? Please, please tell me that there would be a mechanism to check on the original name and gender? How would this work in practice if people can’t ask for a GRC, or an original birth certificate/proof of ID?

Test: the Soham killer is called Ian Huntley

Please, please tell me that there would be a mechanism to check on the original name and gender?

Yes there is. I haven't the time to link now, but nothing gets forgotten.

Yes there is. I haven't the time to link now, but nothing gets forgotten.

That's good to know as my understanding was different.

That’s good to hear. I think it would need to be extremely rigorous in practice.

I can see how errors could occur - even if the system is in place, if the start data is bad... garbage in garbage out, right?

I can’t go into too much detail as it’s work but we have ways of anonymising patient numbers (the identifier each patient has.) it’s supposed to link through systems but I’ve seen it go wrong and I’ve seen there be consequences.

I’d want to have whatever system there is scrutinised publically and examines for weakness.

As well as being a child murderer, he was also accused of rape several times but never convicted. He is a sex offender and murderer and it will be a disgrace if he (or any male person) is sent to a womens prison.

Twitter is so full of transactivists.

Are we certain Twitter are doing this? If so, perhaps someone should get in touch with the Mail.

I don't think the women's estate has the facilities for someone like Huntley. But I suppose - if the trans identification is true - he could be put on the transgender pathway and access health services.

On the Twitter thing though: I can't credit that that a real live person has looked at this report and upheld a deadnaming complaint about one of the UK's most notorious murders on the basis of mere rumour of trans identification. So I think it's evidence that Twitter has an automated sanctions process and that some people are very aware of exactly how you can game it.

*murderers - sorry.

I don't think the women's estate has the facilities for someone like Huntley

No I don’t think they do either. They certainly don’t have anywhere near the space or facilities to hold the projected number of TIMs who will self ID in in safe conditions.

Prejudice by algorithm... would be a great GDPR test case if anyone fancied it?

Prejudice by algorithm... would be a great GDPR test case if anyone fancied it?

Wouldn't it just? This was more my thought when posting the thread, rather than the vile Huntley himself.

I actually went to 'Xyr Coups' twitter - to make sure it wasn't a parody account.

Because who in their right mind, tells off 'the world' about dead-naming trans, and actually dead-names in the process!

Here is the scary tweet (my bold):

A warning from Aunty Xyr: If you misgender ANYONE you will be reported for transphobic abuse. This includes murderers like Lian (NOT Ian) Huntley. Misgendering is bigotry and it puts my life more in danger when you use it to attack society's worst people. I'm watching

When your politics and conduct is difficult to distinguish from parody, it is probably time to reconsider your politics/conduct. /PSA

The "source" was another inmate, as obviously the prison staff are unable to comment. So not necessarily the most reliable information. It was reported in the Sun/Mail/Mirror, so apparently the tabloid editors felt there was enough substance to the rumour to publish it.

Even if Huntley were to apply for a transfer, would it be public knowledge? Or would confidentiality prevent it being announced?

That same tweeter had a thread recently complaining (and I seem to remember threatening to take action?) about being rejected after having applied for a paid medical trial for women. They were complaining they were discriminated against for not being "cis enough", and that it was important to include women of the be-penised type in the trial so they could get a "full understanding of female bodies" (NB not direct quotes, can't remember the exact wording but certainly along those lines).

So either it is a parody account or bot, or I am so far past peak trans that I've gone all the way round and caught myself up again from behind

They certainly don’t have anywhere near the space or facilities to hold the projected number of TIMs who will self ID in in safe conditions.

No, they don't. There are only 12 female estates in England, 1 in Scotland. With an overall female prison population of around 4,000. That Telegraph article stated 80 trans prisoners, but the linked-to source was from 2011. Even if only 80, that would increase the female population by 2%, which is outrageous. Particularly when most women are in for non-violent crime and short sentences (the opposite in men's prisons). I am sure the TIM prisoner figure has risen above 80 by now.

Very good resource here on women in prison.

There is no mention of the "Lian" thing on Wikipedia either. I checked earlier, wow, Huntley had quite the predator history.

So this is where the MN policy on 'misgendering' gets interesting. Is one allowed to correctly pronoun Huntley based on factual information (Wikipedia), or pronouns based on tabloid journalism?

Well, let's try a little test.

Ian Huntley is a man, and given his heinous crimes, it will be a cold day in hell before I refer to him using anything other than male pronouns.

So this is where the MN policy on 'misgendering' gets interesting. Is one allowed to correctly pronoun Huntley based on factual information (Wikipedia), or pronouns based on tabloid journalism?

Exactly. And how is this decision being arrived at?