Baby could become first person born in England or Wales without a legal mother

[hungryhippie]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5817699/Baby-person-born-England-Wales-without-legal-mother.html

Hi, long time lurker here. Just came across this story online. If this ruling gets through I imagine it will open a whole other can of worms.
How can the law say the child has no Mother?

The mail slipped up and told us the sex of the baby.

The baby deserves the truth.

The judge said reports should not reveal the baby's gender or age, or the man's age, and should not give any clue where the man and the child lived.

He) seeks a declaration that being forced to register as a mother to his blank space I removed sex of baby is contrary to his right to private and family life within Article 8 of the Human Rights Act 1998 and that such interference, in the light of the changes which have evolved in society are no longer proportionate.'

I never even noticed that the Mail had given the sex of the baby! Ooops!

I know it's a Daily Mail link but I've taken one for the team and read the article. The person bringing the action (I'll call them X) is biologically female, got a GRC a year or more ago and has had a double mastectomy (euphemistically called top surgery in the article but that's what I understand this means).

X, who is single, then decided to have a baby by artificial insemination. This was presumably facilitated by a fertility clinic. X now wants to be registered as the baby's father even though X went through nine months of pregnancy and then childbirth.

I'm not familiar with what gets recorded on a birth certificate when the baby's biological father is a sperm donor. I know the child has a right to know the ID of the bio father at some point, so presumably the birth certificate has to say something different, otherwise the parents could just not tell the child about the conception circumstances.

So if X is successful, the child will grow up calling X Dad and with no one to call mother. However, at some point the true position will presumably have to be explained.

This doesn't strike me as ideal for the child.

Poor child. That’s a very confusing scenario to grow up in.

Venice has a video taken in Oxford, of a Transwoman crying and saying they make their child call them Mum.

Haven't read the article so appreciated the synopsis.

So if X is successful, the child will grow up calling X Dad and with no one to call mother.

Is this the crux of the issue people are having with this? I don't really see what the problem is with a child having "no one to call mother" honestly.

How surprising Rat thinks this is Aok!

I had a hypothetical row with a lecturer about this when I was a student 15 years ago. Frightening that it is now reality.

I have hope that ridiculous cases like this will force the law to clarify the muddy waters of transgender identity.

Wow ... this would set a huge and horrific precedent - surely the child's rights trump all others in this case? Far more important than the parents.... will be watching with interest... any one any idea when the ruling is expected?

For me it's not the 'two dads/two mums things' as that exists anyway with same-sex couples. Unless one of these types of existing familes eg, two dads who are gay tell the child a lie that one of them birthed the child, no problem, as, just when children are adopted etc, there are age-appropriate ways of telling them about a) how babies are made in general b) how they joined/are part of whatever type of family they are in.

The concerning thing is, whichever way this is explained to the child as they grow up, in whatever age-appropriate ways, it is likely to be telling them something that is a fiction, and outside reality, particularly if the story is 'your dad is a man, and he was pregnant with you and gave birth to you'.

And to take it further, in terms of genetic illnesses etc, in the future, if the child is female and has been fully inducted into believing they have a 'father' not a mother - how does the conversation go that's common in the GP surgery...is there any history of xyz medical conversation in the female side of your family history....?

I think what's Aok? Having no-one to call mum? Whilst I appreciate it's not the same thing, mine's dead and I'm doing okay. I know who gestated and birthed me, but even if I didn't, worse things happen at sea.

This poor kid is going to grow up utterly fucked up.

I don't know how anyone can be so sure; do you have a crystal ball? But I suppose this is MN, everyone likes to categorically state how fucked up everyone else's children are going to be if they don't parent just like them. I really do think there are worse starts in this world that a child could have. I also think a child could have the best start imaginable and still be utterly fucked before adulthood.

So is it the "lie" then? I don't get that either; it's hardly a novel concept for children to have complicated parentage these days, or for parents to make decisions as to how much honestly is the right amount of honesty for their children, or for them to use terms like "mum" and "dad" to denote a role rather than a biological relationship - even if that person is in fact their aunt or their brother or even a complete stranger before becoming their parent.

Meh, not seeing it yet but happy to keep an open mind.

I think what's Aok? Having no-one to call mum? Whilst I appreciate it's not the same thing, mine's dead and I'm doing okay. I know who gestated and birthed me

And was that your mother or your father?

This appears to be about the adult's wishes rather than the child's needs. Many parents have challenged convention over decades and have to face difficult challenges and ethical questions in terms of honesty, transparency and a child's rights, - lesbian mothers, gay parents, artificial insemination, surrogacy etc. The core priority should be the interests and welfare of the child.
This obviously matters massively to the parent. Whether it is in the best interests of the child hopefully will be at the core of the legal decision making? Evidently the parent has enough money or influential friends to fund this but I wonder whether and how the child's interests are represented and considered?

Wow ... this would set a huge and horrific precedent - surely the child's rights trump all others in this case? Far more important than the parents.... will be watching with interest... any one any idea when the ruling is expected?

It was a person ItsAllGoing, it happens to be the same person I called "mum".

If the two hadn't been one and the same that would have been okay too, and not in the least bit unusual.

More unusual perhaps if it had been the person I called "dad", but hardly earth shattering. We all learn how babies are made in the end. Playing fast and loose with what one calls one's parents isn't going to change that.

I think anyone who advocates 'playing fast and loose' with a child's life is lacking in insight into a child's needs. But then that's no surprise around here at the moment - there's lots of it on display!

We all learn how babies are made in the end

And babies gestate in the mother, a female, not in a person

It also causes all.sorts of legal issues. The birth mother of a child has automatic PR of the child, not so the father for eg

Biological truth matters hugely.

I see we are beholden to the dictionary again. Words are indeed powerful; but the question is who is to be master.

"This poor kid is going to grow up utterly fucked up" is a pretty definite conclusion to reach. You'd just as well say "this lucky kid is going to grow up happy and contented , with a great sense of acceptance for differing life choices" For all you know about the kid and it's parenting.

Yes, secrets around parentage can be damaging to children, and can be so all the way into adulthood. Just like with surrogacy, donor gametes, adoption, step-parenting, two dads, two mums, and all the many variations, not keeping things secret is important, as is giving age appropriate answers.

Given how accepting the younger generation is, I don't think it's at all justified to assume that the mere fact of the parent being recorded as a father on the birth certificate and/or choosing to go by the title of Dad will utterly fuck up the kid in question.