Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"Ireland has had self-ID for several years with no problems"

105 replies

Macareaux · 06/06/2018 13:24

Is this true? (The no problems bit)

OP posts:
thebewilderness · 06/06/2018 22:09

What does a man have to do before he can be accused of making a bad faith declaration?

I expect after they commit rape or assault they will be declared by transgender advocates to be "no true transwoman".

daimbars · 06/06/2018 22:18

Pratchet this is purely your speculation, there have been no reported incidents.

Pratchet · 06/06/2018 22:23

No, it's a fact. Self ID means that a predator can enter a female space, and commit indecent exposure or voyeurism with impunity. Reporting this is transphobic and a hate crime.

The problem is no longer visible. It has been transed away.

daimbars · 06/06/2018 22:29

Pratchet nope this only happens in your head. If men in Ireland were really self identifying as women and going into women's changing rooms and exposing themselves this would have been reported by someone somewhere. But it hasn't because it isn't true.

thebewilderness · 06/06/2018 22:31

The women are all imagining it?
Oh Em Gee I haven't heard that one for at least fifteen years.

thebewilderness · 06/06/2018 22:32

Maybe fifteen minutes. One of those.

Pratchet · 06/06/2018 22:36

Daim: Are you denying that men can identify their way into female spaces and commit indecent exposure and voyeurism with impunity?

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 06/06/2018 22:37

How can there be reported incidents when incidents arent reported correctly

Eh? Eh? Answer me that

Actually dont bother

You'll just be putting it down to a vivid imagination

pachyderm · 06/06/2018 22:38

@percyandfriends I don't recognise your idea of Ireland at all, how bizarre.

Debate isn't encouraged and most people are unaware of what the GRA really means. We have a new bunch of theocratic nutters at the helm, punishing apostates who question the woke catechism Sad

daimbars · 06/06/2018 22:45

Okay Pratchet let's say you're right, men in Ireland are self identifying as women and exposing themselves in female bathrooms.

This travesty is happening but not being spoken about at all. It's all a cover up.

Whose interest is it in to cover it up? Not other women. If this was happening they would be complaining to the police m, writing to the media, warning their friends on social media. Men? Would you want this happening to your wife? Daughter? Sister?

Do you really think a tiny minority of trans women exert such control over society that the entire population turns a blind eye to indecent exposure in female bathrooms?

Or is it not happening?

Picassospaintbrush · 06/06/2018 22:49

exert such control over society that the entire population turns a blind eye

I wonder why that sentence made me laugh out loud.

LapdanceShoeshine · 06/06/2018 22:51

I found out recently that when you add up the populations of all the countries which currently have self-ID, it comes to less than the current UK population Hmm

I don't know what the stats are for the rest, but the number of self ID transpeople in Ireland, as reported in a recent Guardian piece, was under 300 - 0.006% of the total population according to my calculator. (NB The piece didn't include a figure for how many transpeople there were before but still, there doesn't seem to be a significant number)

Anyway, UK trans population (not self-ID, obv) is currently estimated at c 0.5%, or 1000 times greater? So the impact on the general population isn't really comparable currently, & even less so if self-ID were allowed.

LapdanceShoeshine · 06/06/2018 22:52

or possibly only 100 times greater. I'm not brilliant at percentages Grin

pachyderm · 06/06/2018 22:55

And yet, they believe they should get to dictate that the language of women's reproductivehealth be gender neutral, and censor and exclude those who don't conform @Lapdanceshoeshine.

BrandNewHouse · 06/06/2018 22:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pratchet · 06/06/2018 22:59

Daim: they can't complain: it's transphobic to complain, and that's a hate crime.

What are they going to report to police? 'A woman took her clothes off next to me in the changing room?' No crime there. How about 'A man took his clothes off next to me in the changing room' Definitely a crime there - a hate crime.

So yknow. I'm right.

Pratchet · 06/06/2018 23:01

Lap dance: how many male-bodied people does it take to destroy a female-only space? Clue: the answer is a really small number.

Picassospaintbrush · 06/06/2018 23:01

Daim also told us that Brighton was completely non critical , and yet the petition for Brighton went dark red the fastest!

Pratchet · 06/06/2018 23:03

We are always right Star

JaneJeffer · 06/06/2018 23:09

Any problem transwomen will be given a quiet talking to, by the men maybe the parish priest can have a word with them as well Grin

heresyandwitchcraft · 07/06/2018 00:24

Kitty Klaws, the point is that there is literally no way to tell if Ibi-Pippi is "true" trans or not. There is no gatekeeping. You can't really question the fact that she is legally declared a woman if she has the paperwork. Self ID requires absolutely no supporting evidence, which means we have to just take people at their word. So it doesn't matter to me if she is "actually trans" or an "artist." The point is self-ID can be used by anyone for any reason. Ibi-Pippi might be able to sue in some situations at not being allowed into female spaces (not sure about Danish law), and I also suspect that legally you could get into trouble if you allow some trans people into your single sex space but not others.
Hypothetical example: let's pretend you let someone who looks like Laverne Cox into the women's changing room, but not someone who looks like Ibi-Pippi. In this completely made-up scenario, they're both trans women, both have self-declared female IDs, neither has had gender reassignment surgery. In any case that last part isn't relevant because you haven't set clear sex/gender reassignment criteria for the changing room and besides you aren't going to check the genitals of all your guests before they walk in.. Would you not in theory be discriminating against a subset of trans women if you don't allow someone who looks like Ibi-Pippi in, but you do allow more "passing" trans women in? The same principle would probably hold for other same-sex activities and spaces.

Daim: if a male legally declares herself a woman, enters your female changing room, exposes her penis to you but is just standing still staring at you, what are you going to object to? Are you going to complain that you were made to feel uncomfortable by this self-declared woman, who has documents to back up her perceived right to be there? Like Pratchet said, how do you even name the crime/problem, and what recourse do you have to fix it? There's also a stigma attached to speaking up for fear of being labelled transphobic.

I would like to know from our trans activist friends, actually, what the stats are for rates of violence against trans people in Ireland (or other countries) pre- and post-self-ID. I'd also be very interested to know how self-ID has affected other important data such as suicide rates. I haven't come across such numbers before. Anything that focuses on changes in violence rates in single-sex spaces against trans people would be especially appreciated. How have these numbers been affected? What's the evidence look like of objective harm reduction to trans people with a self-ID policy? Genuinely curious, so thanks very much in advance.

LightofaSilveryMoon · 07/06/2018 00:40

So it is like knowing someone, whom you fail to trust, and they tell you, "But I am a woman! And I have a piece of paper to prove this! Only you are not allowed to ask for it, and forget about any right to see it!"

That's just a setup for abuse, frankly.

heresyandwitchcraft · 07/06/2018 01:19

Off the top of my head, recently there was the waxing salon in Canada
windsorstar.com/news/local-news/transgender-woman-files-human-rights-complaint-against-windsor-spa

And in New Zealand there was a recent incident involving a women's only gym being accused of having a discriminatory policy (although I don't know if it's escalated to legal action):
www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&
objectid=12060723

R0wantrees · 07/06/2018 01:24

The waxing salon in Canada is discussed here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3247242-Muslim-rights-vs-Transgender-rights

Swipe left for the next trending thread