"Ireland has had self-ID for several years with no problems"

[Macareaux]

Is this true? (The no problems bit)

One thing we know is that no matter where the law sets the boundaries ostensibly to protect women's right there will be men who violate the laws to violate women.
The MRAs have been arguing for years that the way to reduce rape to zero is to legalize rape. That is what several countries, including Ireland, have done with regard to voyeurism laws.

Another Canadian case:
(extract)
"In a written statement, salon owner Carrie MacFadyen said she would serve a transgender customer if she felt safe and secure in a room alone with them.

McKay said MacFadyen tried to give her an address for another salon to get her nails done, but McKay refused. She left, filed a complaint with P.E.I. Human Rights Commission and went to the media with her story.

"It is discrimination. I'm a human being. I have rights and people should know what people's rights are and if you're going to run a business you should know what rights are," said McKay.

But MacFadyen said her issue was with safety.

"It is unfortunate that the situation is being referred to as a transgender issue when the only issue is about my safety. I have absolutely no issues with transgender people and support their cause," MacFadyen said in the statement.

It goes on to say that McKay is often standing or sitting on the street where MacFadyen parks her car and that — along with the fact that McKay then showed up at her work — made her uneasy.

"Carrie works in a small private business as the only employee. Knowing that Kristen is transgender does not change the fact she does not feel safe and secure in a room alone with her, without others around. After their interaction Kristen left the business yelling which confirmed Carrie's concern," said the email.

McKay said she's speaking out because she wants other transgender people to feel comfortable to live openly. She's asking for a public apology from the salon."

www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/pei-human-rights-complaint-1.3735833

R0wantrees, thank you so much.

I really feel so badly for Carrie MacFayden.

I think the USA school case is significant, seems it may have to go to supreme court to define 'sex' and 'opposite sex':

Opinion piece by one of the female students with background including their recent failed legal challenge & hopes for future:
"I don’t have a problem sharing a bathroom with someone who identifies as transgender — provided they are the same sex I am. I do have trouble with a policy that says anyone who’s in an opposite-sex mood today can stroll in and observe me in my intimate moments — and with school officials who value the feelings of a few students more than the dignity and privacy of all those in their care.

It’s my hope that the judges who may hear our case going forward will understand that better than our school administrators have — and take more seriously their responsibility to protect girls’privacy where it should be most protected: in the girls’ room."
www.philly.com/philly/opinion/commentary/boyertown-transgender-bathroom-lgbtq-gender-identiy-philadelphia-suburbs-20180524.html

(extract)
"A U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals panel took less than 20 minutes to deny an appeal by students who sought to protect their privacy rights in their public high school’s restrooms and locker rooms.

According to multiple reports, just four minutes into the plaintiff attorney’s oral argument, U.S. Circuit Judge Theodore McKee forbade him to define the words “sex” and “opposite sex,” undermining Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF) attorney Randall Wenger’s ability to adequately defend his clients’ cause on reasonable grounds.

In the end, the three-judge panel took less than 20 minutes to unanimously rule in favor of the school board’s formerly unpublicized policy allowing students to use opposite sex restrooms and locker rooms based on their self-proclaimed gender identity."
www.lifesitenews.com/news/circuit-court-rules-in-favor-of-high-school-trans-locker-room-with-no-delib

Ibi-Pippi Orrup Hedegaard is a Danish artist/activist who is doing what the ManFriday girls are doing but with less genuine motives - he is part of a collective of artists who seek to challenge "leftist propoganda" - and has defended work which equated immigration to terrorism for example. So no - not genuine although you can use him for the purposes of how would you know, nonetheless I would not want to align myself with the extreme right personally.

The lack of stats/reporting is fair comment. Also comparing stats globally difficult in any case as definitions of rape differ from the UK which is with a penis (as opposed to US which includes forced cunnilingus as rape for example), in Denmark rape has gone up since self ID but 1) because method of reporting/collating itself has changed and 2) alleged link with immigrants who are raping....there is no evidence I can find of links with the actual new self ID laws.

A previous thread was disconcerting as it basically asked for counter-arguments to the lack of evidence thus far: Given that you have self ID already in Denmark, Malta, Norway, Belgium, Ireland and Portugal you would think you would be able to find ONE case of a non-trans person exploiting the loophole. Even if the crime is reported as a woman like Davina et al, I can not believe a story has not made headlines/been exposed by anti-self ID campaigners across those six countries.

But every time I ask for one example for the above six, no one can come up with one and either cite it being entirely down to false reporting or talk about abortion rights or they provide links to Canada/US to prove the problem exists...I am not saying it doesn't but if it is as widespread as all that then surely ONE case in ONE of the SIX countries should be available to cite by now given that feminists exist across Europe.

Are you talking about physical assault only?

And also: do you think physical assault is the only reason to deny self ID?

Because if you aren't worried about discomfort, humiliation and distress then I see no reason why women should suffer these more that female-identified men. Do you?

When you add to that humiliation, discomfort and distress the more serious problems of trauma, indecent exposure and voyeurism, it is debate to ensure that male-bodied people stay out of women's spaces.

It is without debate, that should say

Any crime comparable to the ones cited below.
transcrimeuk.com
Given 10 crimes reported so far this year, 28 crimes reported on here last year and 29 the year before...67 in three years, you would expect (especially if self ID makes offending easier) that there would be a pattern across Europe, even if the number of perpetrators is lower in general compared with the UK. I cannot find any.

I would think lack of reporting. Media organisations would self-censor, for sure.

You think countries that sweep rape and child abuse under the rug and intimidate women who try to report crimes are going to give you statistics?

Women dug through news reports and police records to compile those lists.

Combined with the fact that reporting is criminalised, you would also get self censorship by the victim and the police also. No doubt. It already happens without self ID.

And you think such women don't exist in other countries?!

Oh totally with you beilderness. Trans crime figures aren't collated officially, and when collated unifficially they've been taken duwn from you tube and Twitter.

UK women seem to have been able to organise themselves in a way that has been a struggle in other countries. I don't know why.

And you think such women don't exist in other countries?!

DO NOT EFFING TELL ME WHAT I THINK!
I will tell you what I think.
I think women are compiling those lists. Some have been posted and then removed and the posters banned because it is transphobic to list transgender identified male crime.

I don't know what the point of this is. If it's only about physical assault, why can't male bodied people change in the men's? Can you find a single instance of male on transwoman assault in a male space?

Don't raise your voice, improve your argument.

That is one of the biggest own goals for transgender advocates who ran a campaign of "Do I look like I belong here" publishing selfies they took in the men's room while the men ignored them.
No one bothered them. Men have made it clear they would be fine with transgender identified males in the men's.
What transgender advocates insist on is their right of access to women.

Don't raise your voice, improve your argument.
A ridiculous thing, said by a person who tells people what they think as an argument.

On the internet people are not required to obey you. FYI

Desmond Tutu actually.

Bella: can you respond?

Sorry pratchett school run imminent...can only find alleged assault on a transwoman in a unisex toilet but not gone down that wormhole yet, will come back around 8 your time. Thank you for your responses.

When are there ever "no problems" with something?