Are there any bad men in the Handmaid's Tale

[Pratchet]

Nick: lovely rescuer
Commander: offered friendship, acted pained, tried to explain
(Wife: narsty caah)
Van driver: lovely rescuer
Pilot: lovely rescuer
Econohusband: lovely rescuer
(Econo wife: mean and didn't wasn't to help)
Those foreign visitors at the end of season one - man tried to help, woman refused
Clinic assistant male: gave her key to escape

The only mean men are the guardians and mine doctor a bit while the mist sadistic are all women
Aunt Lydia
All the wives

It's not coming over as women protecting themselves under patriarchy. That is way too nuanced and it's not coming over at all.

That's a very generous reading of the Commander there.

I'd have gone with lying, zealous rapist.

All of the other Sons of Jacob?

Err yeah you've been a bit nice about the commander (assuming you mean Fred).

Huh ?

I don't think you are quite with the programme....

Oh sorry, I should have said I'm talking about the telly! Yes agree re the book but I think the tv version deliberately disguises the evilness of the men.

The commander is a totally nasty abuser. He thinks he’s a good guy, which is always the worst kind of man.
I suppose nick is the only other man we really get to know. June’s husband maybe. He seems normal, neither too bad nor too heroic either.
Many of the handmaids are brave or good. Most of the women with power are bad alright. Although the only power they have are over the handmaidens. I suppose it’s hard to be nice and to assist in a rape.

Are you watching up to date with the UK or the US?

When has Fred been visibly angry, sadistic, violent, cruel, involved in hanging, burning women's hands on gas stoves, pulling out their eyes, tasering etc. He just looks/looked pained and matter of fact. Like in the doctors when she escaped. He's all nice, she's awful. Did I miss an episode.

That's an oddly generous reading of the Commander there.
I'd have gone with lying, zealous rapist.

All the other Sons of Jacob?
All of the eyes, and the ones who commit the massacres.
The men who hang protesters, the men who stand behind Aunt Lydia with guns.

But it is the Handmaid's Tale - it's from June's pov so we don't see most of those characters in detail, as she does not.

I just watched it. It was the econo wife being unhelpful that I finally thought, this is ridiculous.

Where he dressed her up like a doll to bring her to the club.
Where he raped her.
Where he makes her pretend to like him, ok it’s subtle but there’s no mistake. She MUST act out her role or the consequences will be bad!!

None of those men are coloured in. If you hadn't read the book you'd think the women were in charge.

The econowife is trying to protect her child. She doesn’t have the power to be a hero

I'm trying to get my head round this at the moment.

Men have all the power, women have none. Women only have a limited amount of power over other women - eg - wives and Aunt Lydias over the handmaidens.

Commander's wife was instrumental in planning the coup - but then lost all power, along with all the other women.

Brothers of Jacob planned how to "sell" the rape of the handmaids to their wives.

Commander was, I agree, a rapist zealot. But could play the benevolent master, because he had all the power.

June's mother was played out well this week I thought. Although, if memory serves - the picture of her mother June sees at the training centre, was of her mother at a feminist protest in the 70s, not of her at the colonies. I think the feminist protest is a stronger image.

Why can't it be subtle with the women? The women are visibly and obviously torturers and abusers.

The commander is a disgusting sleaze bag..all the husbands are ritualised rapists..the only men that have been vaguely OK are Nick, June's husband and the guy in the bread van.

If you hadn't read the book you'd think the women were in charge

Er, no. If you think that women are in charge, you have really misunderstood the whole thing.

June only meets a few men, so we do too. It’s made clear that the regime will only work if they can get the wives on board. The men orchestrated that, invented rituals that included the wives. But yes, the world only works because many women bought into it. Either by believing the religious nonsense bit, or because they were getting superior lives to everyone else.

Why can't it be subtle with the women? If we are all so great at getting subtle messages.

I feel like you have an agenda here, OP.
Yet I can't be arsed at AS you.

Hmmm.

What about the other husbands, like the one who raped Janine and promised her things he knew he couldn't deliver, and then sold her out to try and take her baby? He was nice.

The commanders don’t have to get their hands dirty though, do they? They have plenty of other people to do the amputating and killing and what not. Try get to maintain distance and can angst about the greater good they need to achieve.

Anyway It is men who do the carrying away and killing. Eg of the Martha that Emily had an affair with.

I know the story, I understand all that. I'm talking about a tv series where women are visibly sadistic torturers and abusers and the men are rescuers.

Aunt Lydia is out and out evil. I thinks it’s more interesting that she’s a woman. If June was with the commander every day we would see more of his nasty side.

Actually, I'm now thinking I might be wrong about the mother's picture - I might have to look it up in the book.