Are there any bad men in the Handmaid's Tale

[Pratchet]

Nick: lovely rescuer
Commander: offered friendship, acted pained, tried to explain
(Wife: narsty caah)
Van driver: lovely rescuer
Pilot: lovely rescuer
Econohusband: lovely rescuer
(Econo wife: mean and didn't wasn't to help)
Those foreign visitors at the end of season one - man tried to help, woman refused
Clinic assistant male: gave her key to escape

Wrt Sharia law - imagine a system where a man's testimony was worth half that of a woman's, where men were socialised to believe their rights were less and that this system was the real authority, where it was not condemned by the country in which you live and you experienced very real consequences within your community if you didn't obey it.
If this was happening to men, there would have been an outcry and it would have been outlawed years ago.
But because it happens to women, it hadn't been outlawed. People who in other circumstances bang on about equality, turn a blind eye to this glaring injustice. And women who were raised to know that women are not less than men, turn themselves inside out trying to justify it!

Some might say it's a bit handmaids tale...

IIIustriousIyIIlogical I meant for the pelvis to finish developing, not the age of consent. I don’t think 14 is too bad anyway, creepy if someone much older had sex with a 14 year old, but just on having sex alone, many do anyway.

But there is nothing inherently wrong with women bearing children once they're fertile.

Yes there is. The inherent risks of injury and death to the mother and baby are much, much higher when a mother is very young.

I think it bothered me because it seemed a bit blame-y towards the collaborators when I really saw them simply as victims too

But they are victims too. I think that's what's so complex and fascinating about collaboration. That they are victims and perpetrators at the same time and are promised the same benefits and threats.

But there is nothing inherently wrong with women bearing children once they're fertile. as I said, my daughter was fertile at 12. She didn't become a woman as soon as she was fertile, she was (still is) a child.

Would it be OK for her to be raped and impregnated?

The many millions of people around the world, throughout history, who have partnered with 15-year-olds were not necessarily "rapists." Any man who has "partnered" with a child too young to consent ARE most definitely rapists.

In the uk we are at episode 3
Shit, that's a bugger then! Five more weeks and you will see where it goes.

Their power is revealed to be completely and totally dependent on everyone else around them. When everyone else decides to withdraw their compliance, they're finished, as though the power was never really there. It's an awesome sight to witness, in the true sense of the word.

Totally agree AuntLydia

I see Aunt Lydia is now totally unnecessarily a sadistic lesbian 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

How do people know aunt Lydia is a lesbian? I'm watching in the UK but read this thread for spoilers.

I'm only on episode 4 but was starting to wonder whether aunt Lydia was going along with the regime to save herself.

In the bath scene?

Ah, that went over my head, is that what that was all about? I did wonder.

I didn't think that. I think June thinks th a about Lydia and was stilltrying to manipulate her just to get any kind of victory. I think the bit where she held Lydia back was to show she has been broken by the destruction of the family just like hers

I didn’t get any lesbian vibes from that scene. I think it was more about making June uncomfortable which clearly didn’t work, I think June switched it to make Lydia uncomfortable.

I didn’t get any lesbian vibes from that scene. I think it was more about making June uncomfortable which clearly didn’t work, I think June switched it to make Lydia uncomfortable.

That's how I read it too...

That's how I read it. What it looked like was Lydia totally unnecessarily taking time to watch June wash her vagina.

I agree with that. Maybe that’s part of her sadism. She would be sent to the colonies for the crime of being a lesbian so she has to be even more committed to the regime to prove how “ good” she is to God.

I thought that scene was to remind June that there is none of her body which is "private" and especially not that - her vagina isnt hers any more, its entirely public and owned by the state, the aunts and her current household.

I saw the 'bath scene' as a dominance display which didn't quite go to plan.

My take on Aunt Lydia is simply that she believes she has a god-given task to breed babies for the Commanders of Gilead. The 'care' she sometimes seems to show for the handmaids is merely that of a farmer for her eartagged breeding stock. The brood women have to be tamed or else caged, and put down if they are too troublesome. The commanders' wives aren't allowed to jeopardise her work either.

It could have been written as a lesbian porn dominance fantasy

By and for blokes, of course

StormTreader That’s Exactly it.

Pratchet You must be watching something completely different. Either that or something has led you to view everything as you perceive a bloke to. I find it quite odd that this show seems so pornographic to you. Can you not see it from any other point of view?

Well no.

I had the thought that perhaps the people who see the men as good and the women as bad, are themselves naturally more sympathetic to males?

I think if they are being shown that then they won't necessarily see the nuance.