Are there any bad men in the Handmaid's Tale

[Pratchet]

Nick: lovely rescuer
Commander: offered friendship, acted pained, tried to explain
(Wife: narsty caah)
Van driver: lovely rescuer
Pilot: lovely rescuer
Econohusband: lovely rescuer
(Econo wife: mean and didn't wasn't to help)
Those foreign visitors at the end of season one - man tried to help, woman refused
Clinic assistant male: gave her key to escape

Show*

Just had a similar conversation with my thirty year old son, he viewed it as unbelievable, a modern horror story couldn't actually happen. I pointed out we already have women in front of Sharia courts in this country where their testimony is only 50% of a man's how does he think powerless women fare under the taliban?

Yy infinite: not a 'warning' because it's already happening

Yes the nuance of the power structure is really awfully nuanced

I haven’t read the book either but the men are utterly terrifying to me.
I agree that aunt Lydia is portrayed as a sadist, but women being violent is always more unpalatable. Without the background of the book, the commanders wife has no power, has no child, has lost her husbands respect, has no sex life. She is no longer allowed to read even though she was an author. She was such a capable woman who helped design her own prison. I see her violence as a frustrated lashing out. More excusable than the commanders violence because he has freedom to do as she choses.

I agree with Pratchet if you've not read the book, and are watching casually it looks like men are just being how men are always portrayed, it is the women doing the noticeably different "bad" things.

It does come across as the Aunts have all of the power, and that the women have power because they are potential mothers.

The whole point is that he is pained/apologetic. His evil may be better disguised than that of the Aunts, but that makes him worse, not better.

Yes, but how many people watching will actually get those nuances

And because all the feminists have read the book we think it's all about subtle messages of how patriarchy creates internal misogyny. When everyone else is looking at women torturing women and men rescuing them.

I don't think it's a problem with the narrative or the characterisation so much as some of the aesthetic choices, which are definitely born of the male gaze within feminist cinema critique:

the perspective of the male gaze occurs when the camera places the viewer in the perspective of a heterosexual man

I complained about the first episode of the show on here with regard to that - I thought a lot of the camera work and direction was of the male gaze - especially Offred at the end, in her underwear, covered in blood and on all fours in doggy position. That was not a feminist scene! And I don't think it was included to empower women viewers - it was included to titillate male viewers.

But I don't think it's anti-feminist to portray, for example, female enforcers in patriarchal society, or to show some men as decent.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine

I don't think the point of literature or media is dumb down until everyone gets the message. You either enjoy it or you don't.

I wouldn’t find it interesting if all the men were blatantly bad and ALL the women abused victims.

I don't think the point of literature or media is dumb down until everyone gets the message. You either enjoy it or you don't.

I agree.

I don’t see these “porn angles” either.

I realize that the UK is behind in a few episodes, but I think, the way the last two episodes have been moving that we will be seeing more of what Gilead is like for men. This may change the idea that it's all the women who are sadistic bitches a bit.

Tbh, even without reading the book if you watch this show and don't "get it" then really you are the type of person thst potentially never will

AnyFucker I agree.

I don't think the point of literature or media is dumb down until everyone gets the message. You either enjoy it or you don't.

The point is it is perfectly possible to enjoy the Handmaids Tale without "getting it".

Tbh, even without reading the book if you watch this show and don't "get it" then really you are the type of person thst potentially never will

This may or may not be problematic depending on your POV. Depends if you see Handmaids Tale as a gripping drama, or as damning indictment of a patriarchal society.

Pratchet I agree with you. We only notice the abusive side of the men because, well because. I think most nice guys watching it could identify with the male characters and gloss over their nasty side, as they do IRL.
Even June's husband dumped his wife to marry her. I thought that was an integral part of the Tale; that what happened to her was a karmic punishment for being a free women?

The most violent men are faceless and generic, the women are the ones shown acting out the violence. You don't get the sense that they are following through the men's orders; Aunt Lydia seemed to be directing the men in the first episode of series 2.
They aren't being apologetic about their violence, so come across badly. Unfeminine. There are women who behave that way, given the opportunity; but they don't often get that opportunity and they usually have to attach themselves to a violent man.

I think the nuances are easy to ignore or miss, (or excuse), just as they are IRL. But if they were blatant it would have dumbed down so far as to be unwatchable.

even without reading the book if you watch this show and don't "get it" then really you are the type of person thst potentially never will

A lot of people will "get" it as much as they got Mad Max (for example) - as an example of a dystopian future that won't happen. A good Drama to watch with a cup of cocoa....

I totally get Pratchet's point. It's very easy to look at the men & think "they're not so bad" but the women, "my God, what bitches".

I don't think much of S2 so far, I'm hoping it picks up or it'll just drop off my radar.

Aunt Lydia seemed to be directing the men in the first episode of series 2.

I get the impression from the TV Show that the Aunts are a lot higher up than most of the men we see - drivers, guards, even the Doctors.

They even come across as being quite instrumental in maintaining the regime, the commanders defer to them in some matters.

And why wouldn't infertile women have a vested interest in keeping the "flow" of children going and make sure they had the power to do so?

Yes the Aunts keep the machine running, and the men would leave the day to day control of the women to them. But women can't rank above a man. Thats why I didn't think it was realistic.

Spot on analysis AskAuntLydia, spot on.

Um, well the conander RAPED offered. Not sure how you missed that. He was also a patronising fuck. Nkt to mention it is by andarge the men doing all the killing etc. But reason why it doesn't go into depth about how horrible the men are is because the book isn't about men. It is about women and how women oppress each other to please men/hoe women are so terrified of men that they betray their sex to protect themselves.

Oh and if remember the scene in season 1 of the TV show where June's his and reacts to the curtailment of women's right by saying that its fine because he will protect her? That is the tone of the novel. The men aren't doing it to hurt the women, they do it because it suits them and they are Co Cerne with the practicalities for themselves rather that the reality for women. The women in the other hand know exactly what it is like to be oppressed yet they keep doing it to each other. That is why they come across as such bitches, they are traitors to their sex. This particularly becomes particularly central during the whole janine affair. Are women loyal to the ones who are suffering through it with them? Or are they loyal to their fear?

There are a lot of men in it who arent rescuers, they are just also the faceless regime so they dont really feature as bad because they dont feature as people. All the guards who drag the women away to be hung, deported, tortured etc etc are doing nothing to try and help any of the women.

They are all rapists...