Are there any bad men in the Handmaid's Tale

[Pratchet]

Nick: lovely rescuer
Commander: offered friendship, acted pained, tried to explain
(Wife: narsty caah)
Van driver: lovely rescuer
Pilot: lovely rescuer
Econohusband: lovely rescuer
(Econo wife: mean and didn't wasn't to help)
Those foreign visitors at the end of season one - man tried to help, woman refused
Clinic assistant male: gave her key to escape

I agree OP. I thought that about the 1st series too.

AskAuntLydia.

I agree with your analysis but that aspect of it (the reasons the underclass polices itself) is not shown.

I do see your point OP, and Joseph Fiennes has talked about how uncomfortable he felt filming the rape scenes. Perhaps that came through in his portrayal of Fred and makes him seem more sympathetic? He is a very, very dangerous man though, I find him frightening to watch as a character and actually thought he was more sympathetic in the book to be honest!

I think the reason for the imbalance in how much of the violent behaviour we see is simply that this is a story about women, told from a woman's point of view and describing the behaviour of the women she is surrounded by. There actually aren't many named male characters in the story at all. For that alone, I'm grateful. There are so few programmes that are so female focused, this one passes the Bechdel test with flying colours! Perhaps I'm so starved of drama that centres around women that I've ignored the men as heroes narrative.

@AskAuntLydia nails it ^^

Please do carry on as you were

Thanks Jordan, we will

Please do carry on as you were

We will sonny, don’t you worry.

Run along now.

How ironic that women's behaviour, on a thread about the Handmaid's Tale, on a fucking feminist message board, is now being policed and documented by "Jordan Newman" - self-appointed judge of women's posting of words and opinions. You couldn't make it up.

I think I’ll take my “team” to “monitor” the kettle now.

Please do all carry on

I doubt they’re literary enough to have read THT Toe. More likely they’ve had the YouTube clip of Cathy Newman and Jordan Peterson on such a lengthy loop that it’s affected their ability to dream up pseudonyms convincingly.

I agree with the OP actually. She is not saying that the men are good at all. And obviously to a feminist watching the show, they are likely to have read the book and they can see the Commander's true nature. However, the average person watching might well get the impression that actually the men are the goodies in this show. It has nothing to do with how Margaret Atwood wrote the characters, it's the way they have been portrayed on screen. Many people don't understand nuance. There are so many people, including women, who swear blind that there is no inequality between men and women anymore. Including many of my friends. To someone who doesn't have a feminist background watching the TV show, they may well get the wrong impression, and the question is why have the characters been portrayed in this way?

I also think that we hold women to a higher standard in order for them to be thought of as 'good'.

I agree OP I read the book 30 odd years ago and found it utterly dusturbing. Dh and I binge watched series 1 and I am quite upset that the men's behaviour has been so sanitized. Is the tv series written by a man? That's how it comes across to me.

OP, I agree. I haven’t watched the second series yet because I was pissed off by the end of the first series.

It felt so NAMALT to me. The whole thing with the commander feeling sorry for his wife because she didn’t get a say anymore. The hapless boyfriend before the regime fell who was totally selfish. The men all seemed to have a excuse round the corner as to why they aren’t really all that bad, it was never meant to go this far....

Whereas the women like aunt Lydia were just simple sadist bitches who just loved a bit of physical punishment, all the better if there’s restraint and heavy panting involved

I assumed this was going to be about the novel so I arrived all excited for a discussion!

Haven’t seen the TV series...

Ah yes I forgot about Emily being a murderer and aunt Lydia ordering a clitorectomy. No men there either but luckily as feminists we know what's really going on.

One thing I remember from the book that I haven't seen in the show is that June's partner wasn't initially that bothered by the changes. When her bank account is frozen, he doesn't think it's that big a deal. Obviously, he comes to realise that he's on the wrong side of the consequences because he has to run away with his family. But initially he is complacent.

Were they actually married? June has to get his permission for birth control, but I thought her crime was living with him out of wedlock and perhaps he was still legally married to his first wife.

But of course the rescuers are all men, it wouldn't make sense if the women were, because the women have no power. It's like the Underground Railroad, the actual rescuers (i.e. the ones' sheltering them, transporting them, etc) were mostly white people because black people at the time would have attracted too much attention.

Also, no one has mentioned that the actual network of Mayday seems to be controlled by women who do the recruiting/messaging. Not to mention they are now committing acts of terrorism.

One of the things I like about this show is that NO ONE is purely good or bad, male or female, even June isn't spotlessly white (as shown in the episode when her DH's current wife confronts her). Even Aunt Lydia has moments of "goodness" in that I think she actually thinks she's doing what's best for her "girls".

Every character in the show is horribly deluded and a victim of their own in-action.

Oh, and the Commander is not a good guy!??! He's a deluded rapist!

Rita: you are the first person I've spoken to who found the first series equally noticeable
Robin: agree about the Bechdel! But for eg with the commander I felt the portrayal was almost intended to provoke even sympathy at some points
Infinite: sanitised is exactly the word I needed thankyou
Peak: I agree with that analysis particularly about women being held to higher standards
Batteries: that's exactly how I felt. Im so pissed off I want to abandon it, but the portrayal of harm to the women is so relevant and good. It's just that the people doing the harm - are women 'simple sadistic bitches' exactly

I'm so glad I'm not alone in thinking this. Thank you. Also thanks to those who disagree especially for writing out those interesting analyses.

Also, to note, this is supposed to be a highly religious society, with interactions between men & women being heavily controlled, so it makes sense that women are the ones being "sadistic bitches" to other women, as that's what happens in societies like this.

Sorry I thought of something else that annoyed me

June's mother, depicting in every way as a 2 wave feminist, describes her club as a queer women's collective. Why? Why not feminist ?

I think you have a point OP. If you watch the show after reading the book, it doesn’t particularly matter that the show doesn’t necessarily explain everything as the book does. With the book context, you know that the ecowife would be 1) scared for her child and 2) scared for herself because any punishment she faced would involve her becoming a handmaid. Women are never allowed to be alone, so how can they really help each other? Only the men have agency. And of course we only see things from June’s perspective, so it will be female heavy. She wouldn’t ever go to a men’s salvaging, for example, but from the book we know they happen - I can’t remember if the show makes it clear. To someone who just “picks up” watching the programme without knowing the background, the nuance of the power structure might not be immediately clear.

Yy to the person who said about the violence porn. My sister made that complaint about the second series too.

For context, I've read the book and am up to Ep 3 of Season 1. I noticed in The Times a week or so ago (or possibly on Twitter actually) that Janice Turner has said she is stopping watching S2 for the reasons mentioned in this thread.

It does depend on the perspective you are watching from. Having read the book I came to the series as a future dystopia written based on the history and reality of the oppression of women. DP came to view as a future dystopian setting that was unbelievable and even far fetched. It took a bit of a history lesson and modern day examples happening right now and in fairness he did begin to watch it differently.

I think only an idiot could watch the show from the beginning and think the men aren’t that bad. If they’ve watched properly they will see the men setting everything up and clearly the “mean” women are the way they are because of that and because they are told what to do. I haven’t read the book, started it but started watching the How before I was through it much.