Are there any bad men in the Handmaid's Tale

[Pratchet]

Nick: lovely rescuer
Commander: offered friendship, acted pained, tried to explain
(Wife: narsty caah)
Van driver: lovely rescuer
Pilot: lovely rescuer
Econohusband: lovely rescuer
(Econo wife: mean and didn't wasn't to help)
Those foreign visitors at the end of season one - man tried to help, woman refused
Clinic assistant male: gave her key to escape

What's my agenda - don't get that part. I'm saying what I'm thinking. What I'm thinking is we have all been fooled into thinking this is a great feminist representation. In fact it's a bunch of cliches.

And because all the feminists have read the book we think it's all about subtle messages of how patriarchy creates internal misogyny. When everyone else is looking at women torturing women and men rescuing them.

But lots of women in real life are on the men’s side. If all women looked after each other the world would be a totally different place. It takes women complicitness for men to have the power they do. If t was all women good, all men bad, it would be less interesting or effective.

*as a story.

It's a fiction book, not a feminist treaty.

It's clear the system was devised by men for the benefit of men, who use the typical divide and conquer techniques to control and use women. Some for their reproductive abilities and some for their manual labour, and some for their willingness to take part in the control.

pratchet - the commander raped offred, arent you going to address that?

I have never thought of Handmaid's Tale as a "feminist representation"

That is a strange concept to me

More, I see it as what is already happening around the world. Patriarchy personified. Which of course pits women against women in a dog eat dog world.

I have seen an example of thos thinking on Mumsnet earlier today. It's all around us, right now. Women not realising how much men hate them, and how much they are already doing the dirty work themselves

Why are you having a go at me? Address it how? They chose to make it look like a reluctant duty which he found rather painful and would rather not do.

And yet he did it anyway! He's not a nice man, just because he felt a bit conflicted doesn't mean he's lovely.

but I think the tv version deliberately disguises the evilness of the men.

It’s remarkably easy to “act pained” and “offer (fake) friendship” when you’re one of the architects of the theocracy, one of the slave-owners and rapists.

It’s not actually much of a disguise, though.

Er yes, I think the commander is a bad man. My point is that he is not represented as a bad man.

I know exactly what you mean, OP, about the TV series and I agree. Don't understand why you think OP has an agenda zebra?

Do you all think that I actually think all the men are lovely and all the women are mean?

Because if I did, I wouldn't start a thread complaining about how the are all represented that way.

Some interesting analysis going on here.

To the 'most of the rescuers are men', I think that is in large part because they have a bit more freedom than any women there, but clearly lower down on the male hierarchy. The rest of the women, with the exception of Aunt Lydia, are pretty much controlled (even the wives are in a gilded cage). One wonders how Aunt Lydia got into that position, and retains so much freedom, she seemingly does not have any direct supervision. That would be an interesting back story.

Commander's wife was instrumental in planning the coup - but then lost all power, along with all the other women.

That part is quite interesting, isn't it? It shows how women assisting a patriarchy (or consolidation of one) really have no idea of their ranking within the system or new system, and are effectively betrayed once they have done their work. A bit like dudes on the left, and their continual betrayal of the women who help them.

Cripes thanks Rosylea. It is noticeable isn't it.

Oh he’s so bad. Everything is all tension when he’s on screen. Everything he says is an act. And he’s horrible to his wife too. June knows how she needs to stroke his ego, act out his fantasy, because there would be a high price to pay otherwise. He terrifies me.
His wife is more openly bad, granted, but June isn’t as terrified of her at all.

y point is that he is not represented as a bad man.

But he IS. A cowardly, self-excusing one. As are most of the bad men in history.

The self-exculpatory veneer of lipstick and scrabble is transparently hypocrisy and yet more exploitation.

He grew up in modern America and was intimately involved in designing the misogynistic system of slavery. The fact he wants to dress it up with social niceties and dress offered up as a whore-doll to help him get his erections, isn’t supposed to make the viewer like him. It’s more reason to dislike him.

And yet despite how clever the audience is at understanding this subtle critique of the commander, when it comes to the women we apparently need to see the tasering, burning, physical sadism, punching, stoming etc.

I find he's portrayed in a truly terrifying way! He's awful, creepy, controlling, manipulative, cold and brutal to his wife. I don't think he's portrayed as nice/kind at all.

Neither do bad women.

And yet despite how clever the audience is at understanding this subtle critique of the commander, when it comes to the women we apparently need to see the tasering, burning, physical sadism, punching, stoming etc.

How do you mean? The violence perpetrated ON the women? Or BY the women?

But it’s mostly Aunt Lydia or the commanders wife occasionally. And it’s aunt Lydia’s unique job to torture the handmaidens so we have to see how bad she is. Or at least how bad the regime is outside of the faux civility of the commanders homes.
The commanders homes are the face of the whole regime. They need to look beautiful and refined and the horror more hidden.