How do we scourge out racism and classism in feminism?

[Treesybreezy]

I need to apologize upfront - I am disabled and also looking after a baby so I'm not going to be able to check back on this thread as frequently as I'd like. I will be back tho.

I've just read this by sister outrider sisteroutrider.wordpress.com/2018/01/15/dispatches-from-the-margins-on-women-race-and-class/amp/?__twitter_impression=true . I know there have been other threads where black women (or other ethnicities) have said, racism is a massive problem and there's been a large, reflexive defensive reaction from white women here.

I'm too tired to articulate this properly now in support of what sister outrider has said, but I've definitely seen both racism and classism in action.

How do we set this right?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3249615-to-think-he-should-pay-on-first-date

The men on the left and right enjoy an intellectual discussion on how best to apply the boot to women's necks. The right advocating for the position that women should be private property while the lefty d00dbroz argue that women should be considered public property.

Why are feminists under the impression you have to entertain none feminsts/free speech racists in order to have a debate around self id?

Why not a radfem debate amoungst feminists then take it to the powers at be?

Why would anyone want to be on the left, when it's full of misogynist wankers?

(And I say that as a woman of the left).

I mean, I wouldn't go to a meeting Owen Jones was speaking at. So I suppose there is that!

I might Lang, I'd appreciate the opportunity to inform him that I think he's a sanctimonious wanker in person

I've been to a meeting where Owen Jones spoke. He was a bit meh tbh. This was before I knew what 'gender critical' meant (i.e. before LangCleg educated me), but I think I'd still go if he was speaking. I don't have to agree with everyone at meetings I go to....

Did y'all see this beauty...?

twitter.com/richmutantes/status/1002167268997062656?s=21

yet thousands of politically unsavvy WC people. People who aren't racist but don't always word things correctly

I worry about this. Because it alienates people before they even begin, when a bit of exposure to anti-racist spaces instead of instant condemnation would probably do wonders for both understanding and the way to go about speaking on such topics. Showing is better than telling. The actually racist people will show up, not like what they find and bugger off anyway, of their own accord.

Im under class i still kinda get what racism is and when i dont I listen.

Can we get this thread back onto a conversation about class in feminism. If peakpants and the band of merry oppression theorists burst their arses in we can ask them to tell us how privileged they are and to stand back in line with their rules.

I had a rant last night about how I meet many women now who were working class, now comfy and are being paid well, bonuses etc. On the back of cut down wages, terrible contracts and insecure work. This is what we could talk about. Why are those of us that have clambered up the greasy pole not working on this?
I want to know. I want to hear? Tell me.

Funny how the thread title is explicitly about racism and classism but you’ve decided that anyone speaking about racism is off topic, and oppression theorist, and exercising privilege.

Well no, obviously from my post above yours I don't think the huge numbers of women (and men) dependent on insecure wages, or zero hours contracts and a benefits system that treats them like pariahs is funny. I know it is a shocking abuse of human dignity and it has deteriorated post the Gordon Brown era of income distribution via the tax credit system he set up.

I have shared my experience of my struggle to release myself from religious oppression which I went thorough in the previous century.

www.google.ca/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-police-racism-racial-inequality-bme-black-stop-and-search-prisons-graphs-statistics-revealed-a7197066.html%3famp

Race intersects with class - so all of those concerns about low wages, no benefits, unemployment etc. most particularly affect “minorities.” We can’t discuss race without class, and we can’t discuss class without race!

The inequality of income distribution is the focus I am pointing at.

The failure of unions to understand what is happening, the lack of access to homes that is dependent on income. This is driven by the comfort zone people, get into when they are well paid. They forget (the working class that rose) or they never knew (the privately educated).

I am not blind to any prejudice. My eyes are wide open.

Isn't it Marxism that says the goverment blame or infer blame of the working class problems on to immigration even when the immigration happened decades ago?

The working class have been taught and shown over decades to blame problems on PoC and "foreigners".

Anyway that's just my off to bed thought.

They are underrepresented in feminism and in politics, as they are too busy with life to have time to navel gaze.

Srsly? You are on the FWR and you bring the Feminists are dilettantes and privileged navel gazers?
I assure you that women living in poverty are not too busy to notice and speak against racism and misogyny

I assure you that women living in poverty are not too busy to notice and speak against racism and misogyny

Dear bewilderness. You are a star here on earth.

More on this manana.

You are right, navel gaze was a poor choice of words. I chose it without thinking as it got my meaning across easiest, but it isn't really what I mean. It's hard to put into words.

See, that phrasing there ^ is bollocks!

I will have a think and try again.

I guess I will try to explain where I'm coming from.

I live on a sink estate. I know plenty of people who actually are racist, sexist, homophobic and arseholes in general. I also know plenty of women who struggle; one works a physical job when she is ill enough that she should be on ESA - but her husband won't let her quit, I know women raising disabled kids on very little money because the dad buggered off, women who have relocated from the other end of the country to escape violence, women in relationships with current open DV, women whose partners are in prison. I know people who have been on Jeremy Kyle!

Yes of course it is possible for feminists to come from this - I know there are many prominent feminists with tough backgrounds - but many women are struggling just to live. To wake up and drudge through another day. Feminism is for these women too, so I'm trying to consider how to appeal to them.