Posie

[BabyItsAWildWorld]

Where the fuck has the Posie thread gone and why??

So posie has views which have got her no platformed by WPUK.

and now MN will not let us discuss her no platforming???

WTF is happening?? How scary is this shit?

The reason I can see given is that the WPUK decision was not to do with MN.

99% of threads are about people/organsitions/decisions not to do with MN. That explanation makes no sense.

Did Posie ask for it to go?

I thought she was getting mostly support on there.

So, WPUK seem to be adopting the same tactics the TRAs use against them against Posie - implying she's a bigot and not allowing her to speak. Posie, as far as I can tell, is always ready to discuss, to be challenged, to agree to disagree. They've implied she's racist in a vague way which is very unfair, but why is this even relevant, presumably she wasn't going to the meeting to discuss religion? What an own goal from WPUK.

Yes the sterilisation tweet was stupid given how tweets are so routinely taken out of context (I accept Posie's clarification on this) but let's have the debate ffs. I thought that was part of the point of WPUK, allowing debate to happen. Unless you're the wrong sort of woman, apparently.

auntycartmanslargertesticle I was at the B’Ham meet and remember nothing of the sort, I presume you’re talking about RRC. To suggest that she has some issue because of a ‘rare mental infirmity’ is disgusting...what in actual fuck are you talking about??

Many people are happy to call trans people by their preferred pronouns, myself included. I believe she was suggesting we give ground to open the discussion, pronouns do not equal losing safe space protections!

Eek. I disagree with Posie's comments re islamaphobia. Yes there is a rape culture problem with some Pakistani culture but let's be really fecking clear here it is not just a one culture problem it's across all male cultures.

Never forget the official services including social services who let abused girls go unoticed. Social workers who told children, female children, that they were prostitutes and they should make better choices. Why did social workers think that was the appropriate reaction? Because the perps were Asian? No because the victims were female children and we do not value our female children and we work with the abusers by saying little girls can be tarty or slutty or a little minx, they mature faster than boys we say. The girls were in it for the drink and drugs we say.

We as a society made mistreating girls okay not a small number of asian men.

I won't get started on the headscarf comments.

Do I think Posie is racist? Idk. Did she make ignorant tweets? Abso-feckin-lutely.

WPUK has reached out and included muslim women which is needed in the self id debate. Posie is an unsuitable speaker given her comments re Islam and Muslim girls. It would have been nice of WPUK to speak with Posie and perhaps link her in to the work Muslim women do so she can learn something.

Calling her a racist has achieved nothing.

Am I being racist and Islamophobic under the new safeguarding Prevent strategy?

www.tes.com/news/those-who-denounce-prevent-islamophobic-are-themselves-dangerous

This. I've chatted with Namazie about this.

Yes there is a rape culture problem with some Pakistani culture but let's be really fecking clear here it is not just a one culture problem it's across all male cultures.

Not all Pakistani's are Muslim, do you not understand history and geography?

Muslims are followers of the religion of Islam, a worldwide religion that has people of all races and colours.

I find your comment racist because you singled out a country.

A pregnancy brain comment isn't far from lady brain .... FFS.

WPUK has reached out and included muslim women which is needed in the self id debate. Posie is an unsuitable speaker given her comments re Islam and Muslim girls.

Why is she an unsuitable speaker? Because she has views that some Muslim women might disagree with?

I'm disgusted by the sterilisation tweet, I don't buy the clarification either.

This.

What about the Muslim women who do agree? Isn't assuming that all Muslim women disagree with posie a bit... something

Now what was that word...?

I really dislike relying on a patriarchal religion as an excuse to defend sex specific spaces. Really really dislike it.

I agree with sorenipples. Now is not the time to be tribal. Posie has done lots of really valuable work. This doesn't mean she shouldn't be called out on those tweets. You can't tar an entire group of people with the same brush (in this case Pakistani men). That is just wrong. I can see why WPUK had to take some sort of action.

I really dislike relying on a patriarchal religion as an excuse to defend sex specific spaces. Really really dislike it.

Me too. But I dont think we do need to use it as an excuse.

Thought process:

Patriarchal religion bad
Women holding that religion are individuals entitled to participating in public life
Religion attempts to reduce women’s participation in public life.
Sex segregated spaces essential for many things including participation of said women in public life
New law attempts to remove sex segregated spaces.
Fight against removal is NOT agreeing with patriarchal religion that women can’t particpapte in public life. It’s saying that women of whatever religion have a right to participate and that is one reason among many to keep those spaces.

The other reasons - safety, dignity, privacy - apply to all women regardless of religion.

I don’t think there’s the conflict here that there first appears. It’s perfectly possible to have Muslim and Jewish women’s voices saying that the reason they want a female only pool is religion, and have secular women say the reason is privacy, and have all women agree it’s safety.

Oh fgs. You can be critical of religion just as we are critical of other constructs harmful to women. We don’t criticise religion enough. I back PP on this one.

Posie did you say that thing about how transmen "should be sterilised?
That just sounds like assault to me - is there something I'm missing? Is there any explanation you want to give?

Life is complex. I hate seeing little girls wearing the hijab too. But just at the moment the urgent thing is trying to get any or all of the mainstream political parties in the UK (and if at all possible a lot of the voting public) to see that the proposed changes to the GRA are harmful and if they go ahead won't easily be reversed. And that means that everybody who opposes it, for all sorts of reasons, making common cause.

Once that urgent threat is dealt with then we can get back to arguing about other things.

Nobody high profile in this debate can afford to make throwaway tweets that are such a gift to the TRAs as Posie's tweet about transmen. People can talk till they're blue in the face about it being taken out of context. Nobody currently undecided will go off and check the whole thread. They will take one look at that tweet and back away as fast as they can.

Own goal.

I've given my explanation on this thread, speakingwoman.

Looking at her tweet re children wearing hijab, I don’t think it was racist or Islamophobic- and there are Muslim women who agree with her point of view. Her comments re Muslim men strike me as kind of pointless as misogynistic attitudes are present in men from every race and religion.

I’ve seen the context of the transmen tweet and she put her point across a lot better in other tweets. What I’m getting is that Posie reacted out of frustration to a particularly stupid arguement on the part of the TRAs, clapped back and gave them meat that could be used to discredit anyone who associates with Posie. WPUK didn’t want to damage their brand. I think saying it was due to racism was real shitty of them, and untrue. I can understand their decision but it was cowardly, and counter-productive in the long run.

I am not in a "high profile" position. I am in any position or known for my views because I air them. I will sometimes say things that people find difficult or offensive and frankly I don't care. I will also say things that reach an extreme where people find their own opinions along the way... people like me give a space to those with otherwise unspeakable views to do so without fear.

No one really thinks trans men should be sterilised, but I do think a condition of taking T is that you're not able to conceive a baby until there's definitive proof that you won't damage your baby.

This is racism and Islamophobia in action, in this country.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/rotherham-12-pakistani-community-south-yorkshire-police-islamophobia-a8209991.html

This is child sexual exploitation. It was disregarded for many reasons, some cultural, as in rape culture, such as young girls are always asking for it, young girls are never to be believed, but mostly for fear of being seen as racist and Islamophobic. It is neither.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-28934963

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/yorkshire-mp-warns-racism-fears-must-be-put-to-one-side-in-battle-to-stop-child-sex-grooming-gangs-1-8695526

The latter is Sarah Champion MP

@JuzzaL agree completely with you here. WPUK have messed up here IMO.