Posie

[BabyItsAWildWorld]

Where the fuck has the Posie thread gone and why??

So posie has views which have got her no platformed by WPUK.

and now MN will not let us discuss her no platforming???

WTF is happening?? How scary is this shit?

The reason I can see given is that the WPUK decision was not to do with MN.

99% of threads are about people/organsitions/decisions not to do with MN. That explanation makes no sense.

Did Posie ask for it to go?

I thought she was getting mostly support on there.

Do you know Posie, I think you have managed to be the first ever gender critical woman actually advocating literal violence against trans people.

Well, I don't go in for this "hatespeech" crap but I think it's a really horrible thing to say.

I'm all for free speech but there is a line, this crossed it. Just because you can say something doesn't mean you should.

"It's a statement open to interpretation."

It really isn't. It is concise, succinct, clear and unambiguous.

I do find it very difficult to understand why someone who is dysphoric about their female body and identifies as a man would choose to have a child, which is a purely female experience (and, pre-empting the objection, no I am not saying that women who cannot or choose not to have children are less female - I'm saying that no man has ever given birth to a child).

It seems like common sense to me that they would want to be sterilised. Perhaps Posie sees it that way too. Very, very different from advocating forced sterilisation.

They say they're men, they will tell that child that they are men. I hold women and motherhood is high esteem. Telling a child that there is no mother in existence is grotesque. Very handmaideny.

Hmm, are you sure you're not an advocate of rigid sex-based roles? Shoehorned the old "handmaiden" in there though, just to add feminist weight where there is no feminist substance.

It's obviously not. As you interpreted it as forced, which Posie does not believe.

The word 'should' raises many unanswered questions, why, when for what reason, in what context, what exceptions etc etc.

This simplistic thinking to prove some one is wrong and bad and must not be allowed to speak is crass whichever side is using it.

There is no sense in which you can say to anyone "you should be sterilised" that is ok. None whatsoever.

It's a bloody awful thing to say.

I'm all for free speech but there is a line, this crossed it.
Yeah I don't think you are for free speech, or understand what free speech is.

It's the right of people to hold and express views whether others fine them unpleasant or not.

We don't have free speech here like they do in the USA and this thread shows that what we do have is getting further curtailed by the view that people should not be allowed to say nasty things.
It is a very very dangerous path. As the success of the TRAs shows us.

This is the same thing. Exactly the same.
Views which cannot be tolerated. But who is deciding??

You are free to think so, and people are free to say it.

Thank Goodness for both.

I just knew this thread would descend into the sterilisation quote because the racist and religious views were unsustainable and the reason behind the no platforming.

What Parker tweeted was hardly in the league of Maire Stopes.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Stopes

Maire Stopes: advocate of birth control so long as it was within marriage, fiercely anti abortion and a huge supporter of eugenics.

I don't advocate for trans men to be forcibly sterilised but I do think having a baby is a uniquely female thing and if you want to be a man you don't get to choose to carry babies too. And I am allowed to hold that position, I am even allowed to think and say things that are really extreme as long as they don't break the law and drift into inciting violence.

Hang on a minute, just trying to catch up with all of this.

Isn’t the point of WPUK supposed to be that debate and women’s concerns shouldn’t be silenced because you disagree with some of someone’s views?

Whatever your views on Posie’s tweets (I haven’t read them yet) surely the irony of pointing out the danger of TRA’s refusing to talk to anyone who has ANY different views to them, and then turning around and doing the exact same thing, isn’t lost on anyone.

The TRA movement has been allowed to flourish precisely because we have found ourselves in a situation where people are paying lip service to free speech and diversity, but really there is only one ‘right’ and socially acceptable view, and all else must be silenced.

Averagehouse You are right buts that why i was so irritated with her she just had to deliver her same talk again. I would have been smilin'. Good stuff I can listen to again.

I spent 40 minutes in a police interview being told SRS doesn't involve castration and that misgendering Janet Mock is transphobic, I don't care about offending people as much as I care about free speech, I know what losing free speech can mean.

Hmm, are you sure you're not an advocate of rigid sex-based roles?

hahahahahahhahahahhahahah!!!!

Yes, Posie is responsible for the rigid fact that only females can have babies.

Fancy advocating that motherhood is a women's role- Posie is so controversial.

(note for the hard of reading- that is diffrrent from saying motherhood should be a women's role, or motherhood is women's only role, or motherhood is necessary to be a women, or any other spin you want to read into it.)

Yy elendon, the "racist" comments - y'know the quoted reason for posies deplatforming - obviously don't stand up to scrutiny, so let's all talk about an unrelated tweet about transmen... 🙄

The TRA movement has been allowed to flourish precisely because we have found ourselves in a situation where people are paying lip service to free speech and diversity, but really there is only one ‘right’ and socially acceptable view, and all else must be silenced.

^ Yep.

But still some people can't see the contradictions of holding both these positions

There is no sense in which you can say to anyone "you should be sterilised" that is ok. None whatsoever.

I dunno. I'd be quite happy to say that someone who murders or sexually assaults a child should actually be sterilised. Shoot me.

As Posie says, we are allowed to say controversial things. It's not illegal. It may go against the morals of another but that's a matter for them.

if you want to be a man you don't get to choose to carry babies too

crikey posie, authoritarian much? How precisely do you propose to make this happen?

Posie says and has said some bloody stupid things. I support her right to say them, and my right to judge the hell out of her for it.

WPUK have seriously fucked up here. The speakers give up their own time and travel at their own expense. I can fully understand why they wished to distance themselves but they owed Posie an explanation.

no-one has covered themselves in glory here.

Christ, I speak as someone who doesn't make policy or decisions. No authority, just an opinion. What happened to being allowed an opinion?

I don't think people who mutilate their female bodies and take testosterone should have kids, I think it's awful for children and very confusing. That is my opinion, I have no power over anyone to ensure this never happens. FFS.

@posie

That opinion is insensitive, ignorant, and completely unfair. I am gender critical, but I fully support the lives of trans people. All of the trans people I know in real life are kind-hearted, diplomatic, good people. They are mostly horrified by the behavior of TRAs.

Are you saying that any female with body dysmorphia should be banned from motherhood, or just trans men?

You are heading down a very bumpy road here.

Exactly - it is just an opinion. Why can people not deal with opinions that they don't agree with/make them uncomfortable/go against the grain. Is this what social media has done to us?!?
Let's ex communicate someone because she said something we think is wrong seems to be the way forward these days

Like the criticism of hijabs on children, the idea that it might not be a great idea for post-HT transmen to carry and birth a baby isn't exactly niche.