Dare to hope

[Imnobody4]

Most positive thing I've seen for a very long time.

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/home-affairs/law/house/house-magazine/95277/gavin-shuker-organised-sexual-exploitation

wah wah wah the nordic model might make it harder to find women who have to pretend not to be repulsed by me wah wah wah.

Baw, I might have to learn how to engage with women like they're people, and then even after all that effort they'd still be allowed to say no. Wah!

The Nordic model makes it clear who is exploiting whom, and the exploiters don't like that.

The Nordic model reduces demand.

Traffickers work on demand - they're in it for the money. They're not providing women for dickish men out of the goodness of their hearts.

Can you link to the document you copied that from please? It doesn't match to police figures.

The Swedish governments own report states that rates of prostitution have lowered - by quite a long way - and certainly comparable to countries where it's been legalised/decriminalised. it's never to go away completely of course. They'll always be some douche wanting to buy sex.

You keep mentioning morals and morality. Like in your head we're a bunch of wizened, pursed-lipped harridans. It's not morality. I don't care if people swing from light fixtures, whip each other and shag strangers. Fill your boots. With free and enthusiastic consent.

Consent, human rights, inequality, safety for women, a culture of women as object/men as agent. That's what I care about. Not morality.

Same here.

That's a lie.

Prostitution isn't morally wrong. Using prostitutes is. That's the whole point.

Thank you. As I said - the UN HIV report is advised by sex worker orgs:

The text you copied & pasted above, is referenced "167". This is the reference:

167 Bay Area Sex Worker Advocacy Network – BAYSWAN, Prostitution in Sweden.

A sex worker advocate group - based in San Francisco, talking about Sweden. Stop wasting my time with crap written by people who profit from prostitution, not even based in the same fucking continent.

I trust the Swedish police, who are doing the job, and actually in the country.

Extremely disappointing to see the UN taking advice from such organisations - but, hey, if you watch Whistleblower (true story) - it all makes sense.

Prostitution isn't morally wrong. Using prostitutes is. That's the whole point

Actually prostitution is morally wrong. It undoubtedly damages the seller but also damages the buyer because it dehumanises both. It does no good to society.

The prawn seems to think "morally wrong" is a synonym for being anti-sex. It isn't.

It is the big lie peddled by people like the prawn that being anti punter means opponents only approve of heterosexual married sex. Big, big lie.

I think prawn knows very well that opponents aren't anti-sex, he's just hoping that framing things that way will shame women into shutting up.

It won't.

Yes - prawn harps on 'morally' because it sounds prudish.

I think 'ethically wrong' is a better term, both more accurate and avoiding that overtone.

Great article came up on my Twitter feed from a prostitution survivor inews.co.uk/opinion/i-survived-prostitution-this-is-why-i-want-the-buying-of-sex-to-be-made-illegal/

Has anyone else had an unsolicited PM from ZurichGnome?

ZG, if you have something to say, say it on the thread. I do not wish to receive PMs from you (in fact, I find the fact that you have decided to send me a PM more than a little creepy).

Ah yes, the home affairs select committee which was chaired by Keith "Punter" Vaz.

Are you a punter or a pimp, Zurich?