Strong words from feminists unhappy with trans exclusionary ideology..

[crispbuttyfan]

freedomnews.org.uk/its-spelt-sisterhood-not-cis-terhood-statement/

a little taster of the content, not my words....

"We are disgusted by the TERF techniques of bullying trans people and their friends and comrades. TERFs stand against a vulnerable minority by refusing their right to exist, using their dead names, doxxing them, smearing them online and in the press and waging a fear campaign, all whilst accusing trans women of being a possible legal and physical threat to cis women. These techniques are not consistent with their announced aim of getting legislation refused by parliament and belie the TERFs real agenda of intolerance.

We are sick and tired of TERF alarmism. There is no evidence that trans women are in any way a threat to cis women. To the contrary, there is a lot of evidence that TERFs feed the prejudice against trans women. The countries which introduced their own versions of GRA are not experiencing the problems the TERFs associate with allowing trans people to determine their own gender."

Oh so now wolf is in the wrong but Not All TRAs... okidoki.

Shuffle the goalposts a bit...

I have a theory that many TRA don't care if people believe that TIM are women or not. They like the power of making women say it, or be punished when we refuse

I don't think you're far off the truth there, certainly for some anyway.

TRAs and MRAs have much in common.

Both hate women. And want them punished.

Lots seem to hate genuine transwomen with gender dysphoria too.

I agree some TRAs do seem to hate women and the Trans women they charmingly call truscums. They have no interest in womens opinions unless they are totally subservient to them. It's all about power. For me there is a clear distinction between those that identify with and those who identify as women.

There also seems to be a high percentage of TRAs who would traditionally be seen as the most privileged is society - white, born male, middle class, some privately educated, many university educated. The current trans gender rights movement gives these traditionally privilege people a way to be oppressed. And I do think some are playing at it and enjoying it because it gives them the opportunity to vocalist their hatered of women with impunity.

@crispbuttyfan thank you for agreeing that some of the wording is unhelpful.

Just for the record, no, I do not hold the trans community responsible for the actions of Tara. The actions of Tara are Tara's alone. I don't want to tar everyone with the same brush.

We do need less heat and more light here,

I think its reasonable and appropriate to ask questions of those who shared the tweet / sentiments of Ada Cable's post after T. Wolf's conviction.

Just as it is with those who have endorsed the slideshow from NUS Women 18 'How to Deal With Terfs'
(discussed below)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3222263-Slide-show-on-How-to-Deal-with-TERFs

or embraced the recommended source from it theterfs.com

As James Kirkup wrote:
"It’s because those women have been – quite successfully and even skilfully – demonised and stigmatised, put beyond the pale of civilised debate as those who question orthodoxy often are. They’ve been given a name, a name that means they’re bad people, people who should not speak and should not be heard. That name is “Terf,” which once meant “Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist” but now appears to stand in its own right as a term of abuse and dismissal alongside the other short, harsh words often used to question the worth and virtue of women.

And that small number of people who direct violence and abuse at “Terfs” are swimming in a larger sea of contempt and dismissal. Their conduct takes place in a social context where hostility to “Terfs” has become not just normal but even amusing, where there is no social cost to talking about and perhaps even inciting violence towards women who hold “unacceptable” views. Simply, some people, including people who would never themselves engage in that sort of violence, are doing things that make violent discourse and even violence look and feel OK. Sadly, they include journalists and politicians, people who parade their support for minority groups but speak about feminist women in terms they would never use about other people."

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/fear-and-loathing-grips-the-gender-debate/

Italiangreyhound
I can't disagree with you, but others do, such as Yambabe above who deems it necessary for half a million people to chime in, when only about a few hundred even know anything about hyde park.

Erm no Crisp that's not what I said. I would have been happy with just ONE person out of those half a million to say "that was wrong, that shouldn't have happened, that's not us".

But no. Not even you have said that. There's just been minimising and victim-blaming and DARVO. That's why I'm here, I'm actually a bit of a fence-sitter on the whole issue but this one thing really pissed me off because a thug went looking for trouble, made trouble happen then claimed it was all someone else's fault and NOBODY who shares their ideology seems willing to admit that.

"Crisp, maybe if any of those 500000 had said "whoa, not in my name""

Now picture in your mind the fact that MacLachlan admitted kicking Wolf's partner. while she was being assaulted by three people for taking pictures of the transgender advocates who were taking pictures of her.

I can understand that when a woman is assaulted by three people, who conspired to do so in advance, the perps would want to focus on the victims refusal to lie under oath at the behest of the judge and the fact that she fought back.
What else have they got?
With regard to Damn continuing to frame Feminists and women's rights advocates like Maria as anti- trans, your slip is showing.

Hands up who felt the need to apologise on behalf of myra hindley..... anyone...... anyone? Out of the 10's of millions or whatever the population was in the 60's how many did that?

How many felt the need to apologise on behalf of the woman who just threw acid over the fella who used euthanasia to end his suffering? anyone?

Hmmm, but all trans people are somehow connected and responsible for each other in this mad cuckoo land that exists on these 'feminism' boards??

seems legit....

I see

Hands up who felt the need to apologise on behalf of myra hindley..... anyone...... anyone

Well we sure as shit didn't reframe Hindley as the victim and make out her victims were really the aggressors and kind of deserved it.

Nor did we even say there was bad behaviour on both sides

No one is suggesting apologizing on other people's behalf's. Just acknowledging that their behaviour was wrong and unjustified.

I will happily acknowledge that what Myra Hindley did was a terrible wicked thing. As with the woman who threw acid over her ex, it was an appealing act and she deserves the sentence she gets.

Apology? WTF are you on Crisp. Nobody wants an apology! Well OK, Maria might, from the thug who attacked her or the person who stole and destroyed her camera.

What I would like to see is Acknowledgement. Condemnation. That's what's missing, that's what I've not seen. Anyone saying yeah that was bad, that shouldn't have happened. Anyone saying they don't want to be associated with someone who could do that. But no. Trans For Health applaud it, and say there should be more of this. Trans forum members distort the truth to try and make Tara the victim.

It's really not nuanced.

Let me ask you directly - do you think Tara Wood set out that day to have a fight? Do you think she really cared about the politics of the person she punched or was she just looking for a ruck? Do you think that behaviour is OK?

Crisp. You posted that piece on here, you. That letter is basically a rambling excuse re why Tara is the victim in all this and rather than the one with a conviction for violence.

I don't care if you apologise for Tara or not, that isn't what I want, but if you agree with the contents of that letter and posted this because you see it as a valid response to women's concerns, then you are blaming the victim of a pre planned act of violence and people will take from that what they will.

4th rule of misogyny: Women's opinions are violence against men thus male violence against women is justified.

This is the argument the perps are making. This is the argument the transgender advocates have been making for years.

This post really takes the mendacity of the OP to new heights.

Hands up who felt the need to apologise on behalf of myra hindley.

You’re attempting to recast the crime you’re talking about as being the fault of the victim.

If someone had attempted to recast Myra hindley as the wronged party in her crimes what do you think the reaction would be?

It’s also interesting that you have to go that far back to pick an example of a truly awful female killer with some notoriety isn’t it? They exist, they deserve every second of prison time they get. The ratio of them to male killers of similar notoriety is pretty low though isn’t it?

I actually agree that some of the wording of the event at hyde park is unnecessary and unhelpful......

Lot of misinformation in the days immediately following the event. Some TRAs interpreted in a way that if you saw the better angled footage was completely false.

So is Myra Hindley meant to be Tara Wolf in this scenario?

Except that women didn't defend Hindley but TRAs do defend Wolf. Not only defend, but DARVO and accuse Maria of being the perp. Despite Tara's conviction.

Remind us again why we should welcome you as 'women' into places where we are vulnerable?

I expected whataboutery...... it's absolutely no surprise...... yet some people on here think trans people owe you a reaction in some way.... some people are demanding trans people who largely don't even know Tara or Maria exist..... should acknowledge something they don't know exists........... and that is a basis for condemnation.......

Good grief!!

No one has asked all transwomen to apologise for the actions of one violent idiot. Most of us are perfectly aware that the majority of transwomen with gender dysphoria are just peaceably going about their lives.

A lot of people on here have objected to you rewriting the history of an incident where a six foot two male attacked and punched a sixty year old woman to the floor and was convicted of it in court, to be the fault of the victim. You said she asked for it and provoked him and people rightly pointed out that that’s a fairly typical male abuser thing to say.

Then YOU threw in the idea of ‘well you expect everyone trans to apologise’ which is odd because nobody actually said that at all. They were objecting to your apologism for a violent assault. You then switched it around so that we are all having a go at you and every single transperson ever.

Now you’re the victim and we have to reassure you that no we don’t think all transwomen are violent, is that how this goes? And then we aren’t talking any more about Tanis Wolf, the six foot two male bodied perpetrator of a violent assault on a sixty year old woman?

crisp im talking about the TRAs that wrote that letter and the people who repeat it/post it elsewhere as support for trans rights.They know of the Tara situation and still seek to victim blame, so let's not pretend otherwise.

On that note I'm out, this is frankly pointless.

It's you who is doing the whataboutery crisp.