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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I believe The Spectator is in danger of folding.

111 replies

Battleax · 23/05/2018 14:14

Perhaps we could show some support for them and their commitment to free and balanced journalism?

They have an excellent 12 issues for £12 offer at the moment.

www.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/transgender-activists-and-the-real-war-on-women/

OP posts:
MsMcWoodle · 23/05/2018 19:45

I think it is vital to be exposed to a range of opinions. I didn't realise how fundamental self-id was until it was hammered home by Mumsnet. Now I realise how wrong I was. Everything else hinges on this debate.
And no one has mentioned the harm being done to children in the name of this bizarre ideology.

SupermatchGame · 23/05/2018 19:52

you’re so blinded by your focus on trans issues. Right-wing policies are, overwhelmingly, bad for women.

Yes Sloth don't forget the 8th Rule of Transphobia: The right-wing are wrong about everything except transgender people.

SupermatchGame · 23/05/2018 19:55

And no one has mentioned the harm being done to children in the name of this bizarre ideology.

Sorry McWoodle by bizarre ideology do you mean evidence based care?
www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/Pages/AAP-Statement-in-Support-of-Transgender-Children-Adolescent-and-Young-Adults.aspx

MsMcWoodle · 23/05/2018 20:11

Hi SupermatchGame. Interesting to see you slide into this thread.
I mean the horrific harm being done to children mentally and physically by the cult you support. I'm sure you are aware of the issues so let's not fanny around.
The doctors will get rich for a while - then the lawyers will get even richer.
Children will be left with lasting damage, but that doesn't seem to concern you.
Not sorry to day it - I'm not going to waste my time on you further, apart from to ask, why do you bother?

ToeToToe · 23/05/2018 20:26

Actually, Supermatchgame, there are plenty of right wing mumsnetters already - even on the feminist board. I'm not one of them - but they're here.

The whole of Mumsnet is v lively come election time - people from all viewpoints/walks of life are here.

SupermatchGame · 23/05/2018 23:43

I'm not going to waste my time on you further, apart from to ask, why do you bother?

Hi McWoodle. I bother because I want to challenge some of the misinformation I see here about trans people.

I also come here to read opinions I don't necessarily agree with and to learn things as well.

The AAP is the lead organisation for pediatricians in the US. I don't think their policies could accurately be described as supporting a cult. They represent over 50,000 professionals. They also present evidence.

And the way you used the word 'slide' sounds like you're describing me as some sort of slithering deceptive serpent.

R0wantrees · 24/05/2018 00:25

An earlier article in The Spectator by James Kirkup raised some of the current issues around treating children and young people:
(extract)

"Dr Polly Carmichael, who runs the GIDS, in a recent talk to the Association for Child and Adolescent Mental Health. In her thoughtful hour-long lecture, she said this:

“The rapid rise in the number of assigned females…. exemplifies the importance of keeping discourse open and allowing different voices to be heard.

“You might say the increase in the numbers of assigned females coming forward is [because] that it’s easier for females to talk about their gender-diverse feelings so what we are seeing is an increase in awareness getting towards a better representation of the true prevalence of this among females.

“A converse explanation, a question: are there issues for young women around how they perceive their gender? There has been a worry by some that people who would previously have had an outcome around sexuality are now having an outcome around gender.”

(In other words, these are girls who do not readily identify with the predominant idea of femininity and are sexually attracted to biological females, and who would, a decade or two ago, have grown up to consider themselves lesbians.) Dr Carmichael’s conclusion:

“The truth is we don’t know, but we need discussion in order to be thinking about what this could mean.”

Just in case that’s not clear, let me sum it up: the country’s leading centre for the care of gender-variant children says its caseload has risen more than twentyfold (35 times for girls) in less than a decade. The head of that centre doesn’t know why that’s happened and says the question needs further discussion."

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

embedded link to Dr Carmichael's talk:
soundcloud.com/user-664361280/dr-polly-carmichael-developments-and-dilemmas

LangCleg · 24/05/2018 08:45

Polly Carmichael has described the evidence base for medical transition in minors as "low or very low".

SupermatchGame · 24/05/2018 20:17

Low evidence base doesn't mean you do nothing, particularly when you have someone presenting in a clinical situation with traumatic distress. There is a role for transgender treatment alongside watch and wait. There is no alternative evidence base.

Yes R0wantrees I've posted links to similar interviews with PC before
tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/about-us/news/stories/gender-identity-development-service-on-bbc-radio-4s-womans-hour/

are sexually attracted to biological females, and who would, a decade or two ago, have grown up to consider themselves lesbians

and there are quite a few of those older lesbians who have since gone on to consider themselves men:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN4a0O7jGHc
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJ9K3gldMnI
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdIqt1-x2w8
www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7s0WgwCYiQ
www.youtube.com/watch?v=folkFya_2d8

R0wantrees · 25/05/2018 09:12

From the Spectator article above:

"Doughty said. “Do you think the use of the phrase “trans lobby” is an appropriate one?”

As it happens, Dr Carmichael in her lecture said some things that seem relevant here:
“Gender has become amazingly topical and we have to be really careful not to assume that anyone is exploring or questioning their gender is going to want to change their bodies in line with that. The extremes on either side are not helpful. We need to look at the grey areas in between. To do that we need to be able to talk and discuss these issues. All too often stakeholders become lobby groups.”

LangCleg · 25/05/2018 09:20

do nothing is not synonymous with immediately medicate, halt pubertal maturation, negatively affect cognitive development, sterilise and remove sexual function.

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