I believe The Spectator is in danger of folding.

[Battleax]

Perhaps we could show some support for them and their commitment to free and balanced journalism?

They have an excellent 12 issues for £12 offer at the moment.

www.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/transgender-activists-and-the-real-war-on-women/

Oh they’re fucked already? Brilliant.

Do you actually know how much worse things have gotten since the coalition government for the groups I’ve mentioned? How many people in the U.K. have died of malnutrition?

But hey, they’re fucked already so never mind.

I would be interested to hear what other feminist issues apart from self-ID you consider important.

I'm interested in welfare and other social policy, particularly as it impacts on women. I note that the Labour manifesto committed 4x the money to the middle class student population than it did to replacing cuts to benefits. I note that there was no acknowledgement in that manifesto of the intersectionality of austerity cuts as they impacted on women, especially mothers. And I say this as someone who was still a Labour member at the time of the election and who knocked on doors supporting it.

I think self-ID - in cultural context eg Guide policy as well as legislative context - should be the priority for women.

The Spectator isn’t going to fold. It is really good, broad journalism though.

The reason it publishes James Kirkup is because the Spectator and it’s journos have actual critical facilities (as does Helen Lewis, New Statesman) and will listen and evaluate the argument. The Spectator also has plenty of female subscribers.

FWIW, I know that they were offered an article supporting Men-Only Golf/Social clubs a couple of years back and turned it down. It isn’t just trans issues that they support women on.

other people are allowed to point out the hypocrisy of claiming to hold a feminist position while voting for parties that are, overall, appalling for women.

Like Labour, you mean? And the Libdems, and the Green Party.

I've been left-leaning all my life - but all this misogynistic crap from lefty-dude-bros, labour women's officers getting women expelled from the party, antifa stopping women's freedom of assembly in masks, and people on here telling me I have to ignore the biggest threat to women's rights in a fucking century is just pissing me off so much. I'll probably join the conservatives just to piss you all off. At least they've had women leaders.

Think this has peak GC-ed me.

I want equality for women in pay, jobs, childcare and in society as a whole. I want to see women in top jobs, not relegated to carers, cleaners, housewives and nursemaids.

We want the same things but wanting them isn’t enough. You have to also vote for parties more likely to deliver these things, or at least less likely to obstruct them. Personally I think some of the policies most likely to deliver liberation for women would include things like:

-universal free childcare
-funding for children’s services especially in deprived areas (but this is currently being stripped back massively - see how the conservatives have gutted surestart)
-more funding (and more secure funding) for women’s services such as rape crisis services and women’s refuges
-universal basic income, preventing vulnerable women from becoming dependent on men or prostitution for money
-Nordic model for prostitution
-Compulsory paternity leave of a reasonable length, and an ability to split parental leave between partners
-Offering flexible working options to be made compulsory for employers
-self-ID to be abandoned
-universal credit and child benefit cap to be abandoned

To my mind these are all left-wing policies, with the exception of self-ID. Certainly no party offers all or even most of these policies, but left-wing parties (by this I mean anyone from Labour; Greens; even the WEP etc - I’m not a Labour supporter myself) are far more likely to support these kind of measures. I just don’t understand the contradiction in saying you want equality for women but then voting for a party that has a track record of offering anything but.

What policies do you feel would bring about equality for women, and are the Tories offering these? I don’t mean to “hector” you but I just don’t understand.

I'm interested in welfare and other social policy, particularly as it impacts on women. I note that the Labour manifesto committed 4x the money to the middle class student population than it did to replacing cuts to benefits.

YY. It's not just self ID I'm pissed off at Labour for.

Think this has peak GC-ed me.

Ok. Alternatively, you could have an opinion? Do you think the left wing parties are offering any of the policies that do benefit women? If so, what are the policies and which parties?

Remember, women = adult human female.

Sorry not sorry - SewSwiftly - if that's directed at my post.

But I feel completely and utterly betrayed and failed by the Labour Party - who I have voted for for the past 25+ years.

I note that there was no acknowledgement in that manifesto of the intersectionality of austerity cuts as they impacted on women, especially mothers.

Right, but who made those cuts in the first place? Agree that labour and the left generally is misogynistic and full of bros. I just think the misogyny of the right is far worse and history has shown us that time and time again. Sometimes you have to pick the least bad option. I’m not a labour supporter, by the way. I’m just talking about making voting decisions based on the broad track record of left v right when it comes to feminist issues, rather than focusing on self-ID alone.

SlothSlothSloth So in the main we agree? Good, there's a start. Allowing men into women's spaces will make a lot of the things we both agree we want impossible. Therefore I won't bow to the alter of Labour or Corbyn, it's not going to happen.

I read all kinds of publications and will continue to do so. My message to you is simple. I don't appreciate being lectured not going to say loathe again as I mistyped it first time about what I read, subscribe to, support etc. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't appreciate me telling you what to do either.

Do you actually know how much worse things have gotten since the coalition government for the groups I’ve mentioned? How many people in the U.K. have died of malnutrition?

Don’t you see that the battle over self ID is bigger than trans and the war to have material reality and fact respected in law is bigger still?

If we lose this (and currently no major party is making any sense on this) women, poor, disabled, PoC are all near the front of the queue to be royally fucked over.

Buying a subscription to The Spectator does not mean a vote for the Conservative party.

No Thorny, but Spontaneous said she was considering voting Tory at the last election.

A woman exercising her democratic right to vote

Sigh. That is not what the conversation is about. She is free to vote as she wants.

Yes, we're being told who we can and can't vote for, if we still want to call ourselves feminists now.

Does anyone else want to tell me I'm doing feminism wrong? There's rather a lot of people seemingly wanting to tell me what to do at the moment...

I do love the way every time I waver about walking away from the Labour Party, someone pops up on here with a patronising lecture or an attempt to guilt trip me.

I've been a Labour supporter for over 40 years. Do you seriously think I'd give up in a fit of pique? Or that I haven't thought of these arguments already?

The spectator isn't right wing. In the literal sense it is faurly centrist, or rather well balanced with a bit in each side. One would only see it a relatively right wing-relative to British polotics/World view in general which skews very far to the left at the moment. I don't read it regularly but there is nothing wrong with it (unlike most British publications), every now and then there will actually be something genuinely interesting in there that other publications haven't picked up on. I really do wish that you would all stop the if it isn't communist, or at least extreme socialist it must be right wing trope. Right wing is neoliberal/free market and deregulation which we don't really see in Britain much.

Where will feminism be, if we can't define woman anymore, and man = woman, just because he says so.

I’m not telling anyone to vote labour. I myself do not and have never voted labour. I’m also not telling anyone they can or can’t call themselves a feminist. Call yourself whatever you want.

There is no way to write pro-woman policy if woman is undefined. This is a foundational battle and I will never, under any circumstances, vote for any party supporting self-ID of legal sex. It's that simple.

Sigh. That is not what the conversation is about. She is free to vote as she wants. Yes I can and I will. I had a choice, Tory, Labour, Lib dems then later on an Independent which I didn't know about until I received a flyer. I fully intended voting Tory and I'll be damned if I'm going to shamed for that. I was voting against self ID first and foremost.

I bought the £12 for 12 issues subscription offer because I enjoyed hearing Isabel Hardman and Katy Balls talking about politics on their podcast (also Fraser Nelson - he doesn't strike me as the sharpest tool in the box but he has the world's most beautiful voice). But then I got the magazine and it was a sharp dose of Taki and Rod Liddle up the bum. Was pretty glad to cancel at the end of it!

By the way, to those of you who are basically saying fuck all other social justice/feminist issues, self-ID is the ONLY thing that matters - this comes across really badly to potential converts to the cause. Really, really badly. This is actually a major reason why this attitude bothers me so much. I would also like public opinion to turn against self-ID, but the tone of the debate and the single-issue obsession displayed here and on twitter probably turns a lot of people off even thinking about it.