Page 10 | Trans women

Jamiem80 · 2018-05-19T00:07:25+00:00

Probably going to get shot down massively here but a simple question clearly there is a lot of hate for men wanting to be women, but nothing about women becoming men. Do you also frown upon this or is it ok and for what reason?

Ereshkigal · 20/05/2018 10:14

Whether men underestimate risk or not is not really the subject of the quote, is it? Men don't like women laughing at them. Women fear men because men are more violent. As you realise.

merrymouse · 20/05/2018 10:14

men should have a lot more to worry about than just being laughed at

Maybe they should deal with that problem. They could set up refuges or something.

ReluctantCamper · 20/05/2018 10:18

but the quote SupermatchGame is about the worries that the sexes have about each other.

so the fact the the majority of violence towards men is carried out by other men is not relevant in this case. The fact that the vast majority of violence towards women is carried out by men is.

it's also interesting to note that the vast majority of violence towards anyone is carried out by men.

Kyanite · 20/05/2018 10:19

The focus is on transwomen becoming women because that is all we hear about...where are the voices of the transmen?

This whole issue is male centric and about what men want...targeted at women to make way for them but not at men to broaden what it means to be a man.

SarahAr · 20/05/2018 10:21

AllyMcBeagle

As Bearsinmotion says above "living as a woman" is a meaningless undefined phrase, so any requirement to do so is likely to be unenforceable.

It is a requirement today that in order to obtain a GRC the applicant must intend to live in their acquired gender for the rest of their lives. A Gender Recognition Panel (a tribunal) decides if this is the case. Therefore, I see no problems in the future for a court to decide whether an individual intends to live as a women for their entire life.

Further, in the Irish legislation, section 14 allows for revocation of a GRC if the minister is subsequently made aware of facts that had they known before, then they would not have issued the GRC.

Can I draw everyone's attention to Ibi-Pippi again?
www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/35dm73/meet_ibipippi_the_lesbian_trapped_in_the_body_of/
As a lawyer who has specialised in the Equality Act I can say I am very concerned that this kind of thing will happen over here if self ID is brought in. The legislation isn't strong enough to keep out artists, pranksters and most unfortunately men who are seeking to abuse women

Re Ibi-Pippi Orup Hedegaard‏ - you refer to a MRA reddit - not the most reliable source of information. He was barred from the women's changing room and sued the gym. I was unable to find an coverage of whether he won the case - I am sure if he had won there would have been publicity. And obviously the laws in Denmark are different from England and Wales.

I don't understand why you think a change to the requirements to obtain a GRC will suddenly change the application of the Equality Act. I believe the opposite is likely to be the case. As the evidential value of a GRC decreases, an applicant with a GRC bringing a case for gender reassignment discrimination has a weaker case.

As for men seeking to abuse women, I think if it is far fetched to suggest that they would bring and win an Equality Act case in order to enable their offending. I don't know of any Court of Appeal or Supreme Court cases on the Equality Act in this area. This leaves Croft v Royal Mail, which was a Sex Discrimination Act case, as the leading case. In Croft, the applicant who was described as a "genuine transsexual" under going a medical transition who was barred by her employers from using the female toilet 9 months into her transition. The court found this was not discrimination.

SupermatchGame · 20/05/2018 10:22

Who do you think is killing those men, SMG? Is it women? And who is killing the vast majority of the women?

I don't think it's men killing them. The statistics show very clearly that it is. And they're killing more than twice as many men than women. So based on that you would think that...that men should be kept away from men for their own safety?

Women are more likely to be victims of sexual assault. I just wasn't sure how the quote about killing and being laughed at was relevant.

ReluctantCamper · 20/05/2018 10:23

It's intended to contrast the worst things the sexes can do to each other SupermatchGame.

Datun · 20/05/2018 10:28

I was assumed that quote to be applied in man/woman situation, maybe like a date.

In fact I think the question was repeated prior to blind dates. The men's main worry was that she would think he was an idiot (i.e. laugh at him) and the women's main worry was that he would be a nut job (dangerous).

There are so many exchanges online, where you see one leading directly from the other. Men who engage with women online will turn into frothing, violent monsters at the smallest hint of the woman showing contempt. A contempt which generally results from trying to say no to the man, and him failing to take any notice.

Those Bye Felipe websites are a prime example.

SupermatchGame · 20/05/2018 10:30

so the fact the the majority of violence towards men is carried out by other men is not relevant in this case.

Reluctant it is if you were a man and wanted to reduce your risk of death. Given the statistical risk, such a person would be wise to go to greater lengths to avoid other men, than women have to, in order to avoid being killed.

merrymouse · 20/05/2018 10:34

that men should be kept away from men for their own safety?

I can think of a few ways that male on male violence could be reduced, but maybe with 70% of all the MPs in the Houses of Parliament, men could think about this themselves?

SupermatchGame · 20/05/2018 10:35

I was assumed that quote to be applied in man/woman situation, maybe like a date.

Yes it makes more sense in terms of sexual assault. Trans women are also at risk of sexual assault, violence and homicide from dating men..

ReluctantCamper · 20/05/2018 10:35

fine SMG, then men who want to use that method of staying safe should become hermits.

no skin off my nose.

merrymouse · 20/05/2018 10:36

Trans women are also at risk of sexual assault, violence and homicide from dating men..

As are gay men.

ReluctantCamper · 20/05/2018 10:39

Trans women are also at risk of sexual assault, violence and homicide from dating men

agreed SMG and like the risks towards women it is outrageous.

One of the reason I'm baffled by all the time and energy being channelled by TRAs into hassling feminists when if they wanted to truly make the lives of trans people easier and safer they could be addressing male violence.

SupermatchGame · 20/05/2018 10:39

MPs in the Houses of Parliament, men could think about this themselves?

They're a sheltered breed aren't they. MPs tend not to think of anything unless they've been affected by it. Same with road accidents, dog attacks etc. They don't see any urgency to tackle an issue unless it has personally impacted on them, or their family or friends.

Maryz · 20/05/2018 10:40

In summary: all people are in danger from men.

Solution (according to some posters on here): let men into women's spaces.

Solution (according to other posters on here): keep men out of women's spaces.

I wonder which one will keep women safer?

Sorry, I forgot. Fuck all the women, we don't care if they are safe or not.

These threads are baffling.

merrymouse · 20/05/2018 10:43

They're a sheltered breed aren't they. MPs tend not to think of anything unless they've been affected by it. Same with road accidents, dog attacks etc. They don't see any urgency to tackle an issue unless it has personally impacted on them, or their family or friends.

I think you are lowering the bar for men.

SupermatchGame · 20/05/2018 10:54

One of the reason I'm baffled by all the time and energy being channelled by TRAs into hassling feminists when if they wanted to truly make the lives of trans people easier and safer they could be addressing male violence

That's why many feminists are united/ inclusive with men and trans people in calling for an end to male violence. It's just that you would never know that if all you read is this board. I think you would call it Liberal Feminism, or trans positive feminism. Or Fourth Wave Feminism. Or something.

merrymouse · 20/05/2018 11:11

That's why many feminists are united/ inclusive with men and trans people in calling for an end to male violence.

"Calling for an end to male violence" is about as effective as punching mashed potato. You need to be able to address the specific reasons for male violence and the circumstances of the victims. Women and men are not victims of violence for the same reasons.

Pretending that everybody is the same is about as convincing as those idiots who whine 'all lives matter' because they can't bear the idea that black people's concerns have value.

UpstartCrow · 20/05/2018 11:15

MPs tend not to think of anything unless they've been affected by it.

Its so obvious there's a powerful lobby behind all these changes, and it isn't run by MP's or women.

gendercritter · 20/05/2018 11:20

Trans women are also at risk of sexual assault, violence and homicide from dating men

I don't know anything about the stats relating to the first two but in this country, transwomen really aren't at particularly high risk of homicide at all. The figures don't back that up.

ReluctantCamper · 20/05/2018 11:20

what merrymouse said

the people who are best able to understand the reasons behind, and campaign for an end to male violence towards trans people are trans people.

the people who are best able to understand the reasons behind, and campaign for an end to male violence towards women are women.

Ereshkigal · 20/05/2018 11:35

That's why many feminists are united/ inclusive with men and trans people in calling for an end to male violence

Are they? Or are they wanking on about misgendering and other feminism-irrelevant shit and bemoaning how exclusionary it is to centre female reproductive issues in feminism?

SupermatchGame · 20/05/2018 12:00

I don't know anything about the stats relating to the first two but in this country, transwomen really aren't at particularly high risk of homicide at all. The figures don't back that up.

No not in this country for the last one.

Women and men are not victims of violence for the same reasons.

No they're usually not, but male violence affects everyone and therefore is everyone's business.

Reluctant, that is divisive. It's also like trying to tackle racism by only working with black people.

merrymouse · 20/05/2018 12:04

Reluctant, that is divisive. It's also like trying to tackle racism by only working with black people.

If you don’t recognise how structural racism affects particular groups you can’t tackle it. Platitudes don’t help anyone.