A bare breast on a t-shirt at a conference

[poopsqueak]

I was at a conference yesterday with many speakers.

The audience was of a digital nature.

One speaker came on stage with a t-shirt with a woman with a bare breast on (faded and 'artsy') and I didn't think much of it. He was 35, male and talking about an organisation he had founded. The talk was very interesting.

When the next speaker started the conference organiser came on stage and apologised for the t-shirt of the previous speaker and said he hadn't seen it prior to the speaker going on stage and mentioned a 'Twitter incident'

When the next speaker started half the audience were on their phones seeing what the 'incident' was. I found this very rude to the speaker who was speaking while lots of people were looking at their phones.

Turns out a person had left in the prior speaker posting on Twitter saying that they were 'shaking with anger' at the t-shirt and 'crying in the toilet'. They used the official conference hash so people could see. People began discussing and the person who was upset sent a lot of tweets about it.

I'm really in two minds about this. I don't think the t-shirt was great, but the guy said he was jet lagged and had come straight from the plane so maybe hadn't changed. I feel torn between the sides of a speaker wearing a sexualised t shirt on stage and what I see as a another person who I think has had gross overreaction that has cause upset for the conference runners.

I feel like the guy who ran the conference apologised as soon as he could and did what needed.

To further confuse me, the person who was upset then accosted the guy with the shirt outside and they had words. The person then tweeted that they had felt victimised by the shirt wearers language.

Really I just want some others perspectives on this incident as I am I two minds. I am all for (and talk actions to ensure) the progression of women in tech, but feel the slightly hysterical reaction to a t-shirt mire the message? What do you think?

i think if we want more women in tech, then they need to actually do some work on making tech environments less toxic to women, and calling out casual misogyny is important because its intimidating and adds to a culture of women both being seen as mainly sex objects and decorative rather than valuable members of the team. Whats the male to female ratio in that conference>?

I have known girls have been raped. None are offended by these t-shirts.

well ive known women who have and also who havent been raped that would not want to see that tshirt worn casually at a professional conference. What is your point?

@Maplesap1 If a t-shirt results in "crying and shaking" I'd suggest that any job is too much and perhaps they should consider a job working from home

Research PTSD. In any case, it seems that the "crying and shaking" was after the complainant attempted to discuss the tshirt with its wearer, who did not respond positively. There's a reason why we have the concept of "professional attire": to ensure that people aren't made unwelcome or threatened by what their colleagues wear to work.

Girls, huh? So none of them ever became women, or are you just one of those people who calls women girls until they're 60?

Why do you think it’s acceptable to wear a t shirt with a naked woman on it to speak at a conference in an industry that is renowned for sexism star?

I hate these t-shirts.

Fact is, he made the decision to come to an event wearing it. It’s a sexualised image, with a woman as the object.

I wouldn’t be impressed seeing him walking down the road, let alone addressing a professional crowd.

It’s hard enough for women to find their place in the industry without this sort of crap.

Trouble is, it’s so acceptable many people don’t see it anymore. It’s so ingrained ‘what’s the big deal’?

The complainant May have over-reacted but he was an idiot to think it was ok to put that on.

Eww star does he do the school run wearing one of his many objectifying shirts? Yuk.

its so difficult isnt it. Some women are completely fine with men sexually objectifying women or displaying misogyny casually when theyre around, and yet others sometimes find it really distressing and triggering, and others still find it just one of the hundreds of reasons they dont feel comfortable pursuing careers in male dominated industries.

Makes it IMPOSSIBLE for men to know WHEN to display casual or outright misogyny or not.
SO difficult :(

I pity your daughter that her own mother supports her objectification

This. 100%
What a hideous experience for a young girl to grow up with her own dad wearing images of naked women.

@starzig How on earth do women these days expect to feel empowered when people like this constantly undermine equality

The person undermining equality is the man in the porn tshirt that gives a clear message to any observer about how he thinks of women.

^by acting like a stereotypical whinging, easy upset, fragile, precious women . Can nobody see this does more harm than the t-shirt in the first place. I definately don't want to work in a place where men are having to tiptoe around women.

Rules one and three of patriarchy right there: the women are expected to pipe down and it's their fault when a man's sexist behaviour causes controversy.

When a woman can't say to a guy "your t-shirt is unprofessional", she is having to tiptoe around him. When a woman is having to stay quiet and put up with Page Three Girls on the wall, harassment, and a sexualised environment, she is having to tiptoe around men. Why is it OK to force women to tiptoe around sexist men and not OK to force men to treat women like people?

If women are ever to be taken seriously in any industry they need to be judged on their intellect, not the size of their breasts.

The speaker clearly gives not one toss about the brains of the women at the conferences at which he speaks.

It makes me genuinely sad the thought that men might be tip toeing around me and given the opportunity they’d all have breasts on their t shirts.

I kind of thought men were better than that.

It makes me think that the men who're miffed that they can't do that are very sad indeed.

branleause, I am not sure of the official female to male ratio but I could guess (from what I could see) it was maybe 60/40 (male favoured) in the audience. They had 4 out of 10 female speakers and I think of the sponsors that got on stage there were perhaps 4 or 5 out of 10 ish women.

@teacuphiccup

It makes me genuinely sad the thought that men might be tip toeing around me and given the opportunity they’d all have breasts on their t shirts.

I kind of thought men were better than that.

YY. Upthread I wrote a bit about getting paranoid that all the men I work with secretly hate me and would just love for me to not be there so they could break out the porn screensavers and the rape jokes. Even though two of my colleagues made up 50% of the interview panel and chose me over five male interviewees...

Working in a misogynist industry like tech can really hammer women's mental health and self-esteem.

I’m not in the tech industry, but last year I gave a brief presentation to 300 in my own field. I was excited about it and looking forward to it. A very senior person from my organisation was introducing me at the start of my talk. He chose to do so by talking about the (very normal, business-appropriate) clothes I happened to be wearing that day. With a wink.

I had the choice to walk out, call him out publicly, or just get on with the talk, having been humiliated in front of the audience. I got on with it. It destroyed my enthusiasm and enjoyment for that talk, but I but on a professional face and got through it. Afterwards several woman colleagues approached me to say how sorry for me they felt.

I’ve never challenged the guy about it. I did speak to my (male) boss who was there, and whom I get on well with, but he said, oh I’m sure he didn’t mean anything and brushed it off.

I’ve never challenged directly because I’m too scared. Calling it out would certainly have had me crying and shaking in the toilets. Have some empathy, OP.

I was uncertain until I saw the picture of the T-shirt. That's the same kind of image that appears on the (milder) version of pin-up calendars that women have rightly fought to have removed from the workplace. Absolutely not acceptable at a professional conference, for precisely the same reasons.

These things need calling out.

The T-shirt is terrible. I doubt the speaker put it on consciously thinking 'this is going to get one over on the women in the audience and put them in their place', but the fact of him getting to a place where he owned it, and put it on, in the first place points both to his own attitudes and to a collective, for want of a better word institutional atmosphere of misogyny. I agree with everyone on that. It's not OK and it needed challenging.

But if I understand the OP correctly, the woman who complained tweeted about it (and about crying and shaking) while his talk was still going on. I don't think taking to SM before speaking to the offender about it is OK, actually. It's activating a process and a discourse which is intended to whip up sympathy for her and antagonism for the bloke. Getting an albeit virtual crowd going before challenging the offender doesn't sit right with me. What would have been appropriate -and necessary - would have been to stand up during the Q&As and say 'What's with the T-shirt?'

Elderly, you have summed my thoughts up wonderfully.

The op was there. If it’s appropriate and necessary to call it out at the time and that’s the whole point (and I agree on the approp and necessary) then why the fuck didn’t she? I would have. And her reason is obviously not because It would have been stressful and difficult as shaking in the toilets is such a massive overreaction.
Personally yes it should have been called outat the time, preferably as he walked onto stage ‘maybe someone can lend x a change of top so he can give his talk’ , but spreading it via social media is completely fair. He wore it, to present at an event. People deserve to know.

The thing about tshirt slogans and pictures is that they are not really for the wearer (unless you stand facing a mirror all day) they are in the face of whoever you speak to. So they are kind of a billboard for whatever you want to advertise (I support CND! I still love Duran Duran! Man U for ever! Women know your place! etc)

I do think if you are in an industry that is or was male dominated it becomes difficult as a woman to see the wood from the trees as you become so desensitised. I know personally from a military background that I look back and cannot believe how complicit I was in not wanting to point out sexism that eventually I stopped seeing it.

@potplant2 YY, most of us just take it on the chin, right up to washing a stranger's jizz off our tights and then heading to the next meeting.

"It wasn’t until I got to my desk at work and attempted to hitch up my tights that I noticed the long streak of cum down the back of my leg.

I had a nine o’clock meeting so I just cleaned it off and got on with the day." Dr Ellie Cosgrave, engineer

@AnElderlyLadyOfMediumHeight That's the first and third rule of misogyny. The first rule meaning that woman are responsible for the consequences of men's actions and the third rule ensuring that no matter how we react, its the wrong reaction.

Take it to social media? You're overreacting.
Take it to the conference organisers? You are helping them hush it up.
Talk amongst your friends about it? You are a gossiper.
Say nothing? You are complicit in it continuing.

Under patriarchy, women cannot react appropriately to abuse because men deem all reactions to be inappropriate.

Instead of policing women who speak out, try policing the men who cause the problem.