Has anyone else just discovered that they are a RadFem?

[loveyouradvice]

I'd always thought of myself as a liberal feminist... yup, feminist to the core and ready to fight for women and girls where appropriate but not that knowledgeable - and happy to enjoy the fun of being a women (summer dresses, sexy flirting, beautiful bodies) while acknowledging the horrors (FGM, rape, systemic inequality)....

But who knew it.... It just takes the words Transwomen are men ... so very obvious to me on so many levels.... to turn me into a RadFem....

And I've moved from being happy to encounter the occasional Transwomen in the Ladies (in well-populated, chatty scenarios like clubs) ... treating us with respect and being treated with respect... to not wanting a Penis in any sex-segregated arena...to feel threatened by the incursion of men on "our" spaces....

to sleeping badly and wondering what kind of world we are developing for our DC where playing with the boundaries of gender stereotypes (like Boy George) is less acceptable and the blue/pink divide has become so much more entrenched and the almost automatic reaction to any gender dissatisfaction in the young is to explore whether they are trans, rather than their just questioning and exploring society and their role within it....

Always have been but this board brought me back to activism when it raised my awareness of the trans issues

I've always been a radfem. Tried to be a bit more libfem for a while because those were the only other feminists I could find to talk to, and probably a bit of having a fairly easy time in my 20s and being too lazy to engage on the level a more radical analysis requires. What little time I did spend on liberal feminism was a total waste, so false economy there! At this point I pretty much see modern liberal feminism as the backlash. If you can't totally destroy them then infiltrate them and render them ineffective.

juells I'm stealing Homeopathic feminism. Genius!

I am also a recent rad fem convert. Mostly spurred on by having a baby and negotiating the new landscape of running the home, childcare, return to work etc.

I think a lot of women are lib fem until they go through some personal struggle (like having a baby, denied promotion at work) that really crystallises the issues for them. Direct experience of the power of patriarchy.

Still somewhat wary of sharing my views in real life though.

As a teacher, I see lots of boys being diagnosed with additional needs as they don't cope in the classroom environment. Girls with similar issues don't get picked up on because they are socialised from such a young age to play quietly, be submissive, fit in. It's nurture. It's ingrained in society. Some people think I'm strange for refusing to buy all pink clothes for my baby.

I was never a feminist all all.

Men treated me amazingly when I was very young and beautiful. Then I had children and my perception changed. I still wasnt really aware of feminism other than 70s bras burnings, but I could see the sexism and inequality, especially at work.

Its these boards that both educated and converted me a few years ago, and I will be eternally grateful.

In terms of the decisive break from being willing to try to find a compromise with liberal feminism it was the support for the sex industry that did it for me, and the whole idea of sex-positive in general. Funny how quickly "you can" becomes "you should" and then "you must", eh? The main goal underneath all the superficial guff about empowerment seems to be to make women ashamed of saying no.

I've always been a radfem... but I'm old. It's a scary time right now but heartening to see so many women coming to real feminism.

Aren’t a lot of the current left wing men “brocialists”? There’s always been misogyny in the labour movement.

That said, many of the most interesting conversations about feminism i’ve Had at work have been with a man who considers himself a Marxist. But we’re all so middle class in my workplace so this proves nothing.

Hmm.

Aren’t a lot of the current left wing men “brocialists”? There’s always been misogyny in the labour movement.

Yes that's true but I think that the similarity between rad fem ideology and socialist ideology make this group open to conversion. Men can be feminists too. They can't join rad fem organisation but IMO we can build a co-aoltion. If we can't convert our closet allies how can we change the world? We can't just kill the men....

can someone explain something to me please? im very new to this, having never identified as a feminist before. i hated the word actually, however this website has opened my eyes.

im confused as to radfem stance on sex and gender? i understand the opposition to transgender men using womens spaces. so is there an understanding that biological sex should be used in those circumstances? public toilets, changing rooms etc

what about the genders/pronouns/labels that people want to use? are they criticized? i find it quite confusing and it makes me feel like an idiot! ive tried googling but dont fully understand.

i dont even really understand “gender is a social construct” is that a negative phrase? or is it a good thing? should gender not be in the equation, only biological sex?

if i say im a female who likes “girly” things like make up, fashion, but also “boyish” things like football and weightlifting, am i going to be pounced on for labelling such things as girly/boyish? does that offend people? or is it ok to associate certain interests with femininity?

i feel like in the current climate you could say “tampons are for women” and there would be someone snapping back “actually tampons can be used by anyone, they arent strictly for women”

sorry for the rambling.

I was a liberal feminist until I encountered the word TERF. Embarrassingly I didn't really know what radical feminism was at that point (other than it involved being angry a lot), but I started to pay a bit more attention and the more I found out, the more I realised I was starting to question liberal ideology. And even though I lack the knowledge and theory to comfortably identify as radfem I find in a lot of cases I'm much more interested in what radical feminists have to stay on a topic.

Yes, since just before last Christmas.

Looked up up something to do with feminism on Google, and Mumsnet Feminism Chat came up in the top three results,

So, clicked, started reading, kept on reading, kept on reading, kept on reading, kept on reading, etc.!

to all posters who have inspired me. I love the way I feel far more confident in being a woman, over the past few months, now that I'm a regular daily reader.

I only became aware of what was going on 6 months ago, oddly enough through complaining about GGreer being no platformed on a fb Magic grandad forum, posting a Janice Raymond link and getting chucked out! Thats was how I found out about Lilly attacking Anne R. and self id. And the menz take over, up to that point I'd supported transpeople as all people deserve human rights and that they were part of the LGB. Hadn't questioned it.
I was part of the women's liberation movement 50 years ago involved in actions that resulted in arrests. There were liberal feminists from the beginning (as well as separatists I wasn't part of their group but I studied what they wrote and considered them another branch of the movement). They were always criticised by radical feminists but nobody would not have considered them anti-feminists. They were the ones who wanted careers and to work the institutions it was more a difference of approach. I'm sure the liberal feminists of that time would have been horrified at the sexual commodification of women. They weren't handmaidens and their views were logical and reasonable.
I feel frightened more than anything. Especially being old. The young are being encouraged to blame their economic difficulties and brexit on the old. Not until we die will they be able to realise their dreams.
I'm an introvert and hate talking about myself. But I've really enjoyed this thread and wanted to contribute.

@esk1mo

This was a great “beginners” thread. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Anything you’re not sure of just ask lots of knowledgeable posters who will help you out

So many interesting contributions on this thread.

I'm sure the liberal feminists of that time would have been horrified at the sexual commodification of women. They weren't handmaidens and their views were logical and reasonable.

We need to reach out to young liberal feminists. I'm 35 and I am technically a millennial but I don't understand where this younger feminism is coming from. It's so anti-woman that I am really really concerned for the women in this movement. We need to reach out to them. It's really important. We're their elders and they need us #WomanPower

@Badgerthebodger thank you so much, im on page 2 and things are starting to make sense.

i have 2 questions, if I may:

1. if someone asked me, how do i know i am a woman? my answer would be because i have a vagina and breasts. is this..correct thinking?

2. i was watching Genderquake on ch4 and there were transgender men who had fully had surgery, and there were men who hadn’t had surgery but wore make up, were effeminate, soft speaking but didn’t identify as male or female. do radfems support the former transgender male but not the latter? or is the latter acceptable because he isnt claiming to be a woman?

or is it wrong to adopt the positives of femininity and being a woman but remaining male so that you still hold your male privelages?

I've always considered myself a feminist (although never understood enough to define myself into a category) I.e. Pro-women's rights, choice, things like that. I've always thought of myself as left wing and voted Labour.
But, it's been a shock to me to realise that my core beliefs do effectively make me a radical feminist. I am appalled that the path (I thought) to a fairer, less judgemental world seems to have gone askew. Instead of people accepting themselves and others in all their manifestations of sexuality and appearances, it seems to me that we have lots and lots of labels for people but fewer choices. Having grown up with the attitude that being a woman should not limit your aspirations, to now have a climate where gendered behaviour (what you wear, how you look) influences how you should define yourself seems to turn that on it's head.

I think I've always been a radfem just didn't have a label for all my views, didn't need to express them until I heard about self ID
First realised the difference between sex and gender when reading a text book at school.
I think people don't like using the word sex because well its the word sex they get embarrassed and use the gender.
Does anyone think labours not so well results in local elections had anything to do with not as many women voting for them due to policy on self ID, transgender women being allowed to get positions previously only open to biological women

Hmmm esk1mo

You will find as you read more that feminists do not speak with one voice. I personally wouldn’t say anything was “correct thinking” you just think what you think!

If you asked me how do I know I am a woman? I just am. I don’t “feel like” a woman. I just am. You don’t have to justify why you’re a woman. In fact lots of times “I’m a woman because I have boobs and a fanny” leads to “OMG you’re so transphobic what about women who have had mastectomies it hysterectomies, are they not woman?” When obviously, they are. This is why we keep asking trans identified people what it is to “feel like” a woman. Because most of us can’t articulate that, we just are.

2. it’s late and I’m sure this won’t be as coherent as I would like but basically I don’t support trans people who are absolute shitheads, demanding access to spaces they have no right to be in purely for the purpose of validation. Some things need to be separated by biological sex, gender has fuck all to do with it. It is ok to have women only spaces. We are not obliged to share our every waking moment with men.

I can’t succinctly sum up the rest of the points because I’m tired sorry. Look for the inimitable @Datun’s posts for clear, well reasoned thinking. Otherwise read, learn, question and form your own opinion. You won’t find anyone here who wants to police your thoughts - even if they don’t agree with you. The problem is when people’s beliefs start to become enshrined in bad law which doesn’t consider the effect on other vulnerable groups.

do radfems support the former transgender male but not the latter? or is the latter acceptable because he isnt claiming to be a woman?

Why would feminists be tasked to support any men?
The focus of Feminism is women's rights.
We are currently in a battle with men who are trying to roll back women's rights even further than they have already been under the guise of equality for transgender identified males.

esk1mo
im confused as to radfem stance on sex and gender?

Sex is an immutable material realty.
Gender is a bullshit construct designed by society to make women perform prettiness and avoid any important thinkings and doings.

1) if someone asked me, how do i know i am a woman? my answer would be because i have a vagina and breasts. is this..correct thinking?
It's not a question any woman should have to think about. Let alone "correctly".

2) i was watching Genderquake on ch4 and there were transgender men who had fully had surgery, and there were men who hadn’t had surgery but wore make up, were effeminate, soft speaking but didn’t identify as male or female. do radfems support the former transgender male but not the latter? or is the latter acceptable because he isnt claiming to be a woman?

Rad fems support women. Not loads of different types of men who speak softly or have an identity crisis or don't have an identity crisis or who have plastic surgery or not.