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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Has anyone else just discovered that they are a RadFem?

212 replies

loveyouradvice · 09/05/2018 15:17

I'd always thought of myself as a liberal feminist... yup, feminist to the core and ready to fight for women and girls where appropriate but not that knowledgeable - and happy to enjoy the fun of being a women (summer dresses, sexy flirting, beautiful bodies) while acknowledging the horrors (FGM, rape, systemic inequality)....

But who knew it.... It just takes the words Transwomen are men ... so very obvious to me on so many levels.... to turn me into a RadFem....

And I've moved from being happy to encounter the occasional Transwomen in the Ladies (in well-populated, chatty scenarios like clubs) ... treating us with respect and being treated with respect... to not wanting a Penis in any sex-segregated arena...to feel threatened by the incursion of men on "our" spaces....

to sleeping badly and wondering what kind of world we are developing for our DC where playing with the boundaries of gender stereotypes (like Boy George) is less acceptable and the blue/pink divide has become so much more entrenched and the almost automatic reaction to any gender dissatisfaction in the young is to explore whether they are trans, rather than their just questioning and exploring society and their role within it....

OP posts:
Baroquehavoc · 09/05/2018 21:20

The one problem I have with radical feminism, is that I believe that society does need to be restructured to liberate women and girls, but how? I know it's one step at a time, but it seems such an uphill struggle and everytime we make progess, it's noticed and we get slapped down again.

I can see that liberals, when working with women and girls, feel that they are doing something. Even if it's just putting plasters on the problem, rather than getting to the root of the problem.

Dorade · 09/05/2018 21:22

Some considerable time ago courtesy of Dittany.

thebewilderness · 09/05/2018 21:23

Liberal fem here. Guardian reading, pro equality, Hadley Freeman makes me a bit uncomfortable kind of feminist. Would like us all to be one big Happy LGBT family not demonising one another.

Did you misunderstand the OP or are you simply here to derail?
How can you say that in light of what transgender advocates are doing to the L&G?

Baroquehavoc · 09/05/2018 21:26

It's such a shame that Dittany's posts have been zapped. I totally understand, but we've lost some great, insightful posts.

RedToothBrush · 09/05/2018 21:28

Does it feel odd that your views are aligned with the most right wing in society?

The Daily Mail exposed Telford.

The Guardian didn't want to know.

The idea that the left is always 'correct' and more 'moral' is propaganda in its own right.

If you look through history and the nature of the press, its the inherent tension between the difference between left and right with each holding each other to account which guides us through the moral maze. Each side has its own time when it is 'more morally right' that the other. This keeps things healthy.

Its only usually when either the left or right gets too much influence that problems really start to creep in too a degree that society starts to fall apart at the seams in terms of losing all sense of humanity and become intentionally harmful to other humans (the argument for incompetence is a different one).

You can see flashes of this dehumanisation coming from both left and right atm.

SarahCarer · 09/05/2018 21:39

Hi Daimbar. Glad you're here. Can I ask you a question? Do you believe that gendered behaviour happens as a result of socialisation? Or do you think, for example, that by nature girls are more inclined towards parenting and boys towards STEM?

SarahCarer · 09/05/2018 21:39

With some exceptions obviously

daimbars · 09/05/2018 21:53

SarahCarer nature. I'm around young boys and girls a lot and they have v different energies. You?

Greymisty · 09/05/2018 21:58
Hmm
PuddingAndHotMilk · 09/05/2018 22:00

Libfem turned Radfem in the past 6 months. The cotton ceiling was my #peaktrans moment but I agree it's #peakpatriarchy
I'm scared, but fear makes me angry. I'm too scared to REALLY speak out publicly though, I need to stand up and be counted but it's terrifying and I've been called bigot and teed too often already by strangers.

What I hope is this will bring about a new wave of feminists, but at what cost Confused

spontaneousgiventime · 09/05/2018 22:03

I absolutely love this thread. Seeing so many new women brave enough to speak up. Reading the things that brought us to this point and what now makes us nervous is a real insight into women in 2018. It's not always positive but the togetherness is heartening.

MillicentF · 09/05/2018 22:05

"Does it feel odd that your views are aligned with the most right wing in society?"
Yes, it does. But then I read something like How to have lesbian sex with a trans woman and I feel even less at home.......

DJLippy · 09/05/2018 22:08

Hi @Daimba thank you for engaging. I think you will find that most posters at mumsnet are in the same boat as you. I am a member of the LGBT society (whatever that means - I'm just bisexual.) I am a 'rad fem' precisely because of this. I don't conform to 'gender norms' which is why I am so vocal about the areas of transgender ideology that concern me. Please take a look at some of the threads on mumsnet. We are not right wing bigots. We are frustrated by the lack of co-herent discussion regarding our concerns. If you could share some links with us I think we'd all appreciate your input. I want to learn more about what you believe and why you believe it.

JustABrokenDoll · 09/05/2018 22:10

Yes.

I'm not sure when I tipped over from 'just' being feminist into what is called radfem but yes, it's happened to me too.

I'm seeing things in my current relationship that make me quite angry whereas they just irritated me before. Things that seem minor but when I add them together they are starting to really fuck me off now.

thebewilderness · 09/05/2018 22:11

Women have never had a place on the left except as servants to men, just as we are to men on the right.

I repeat myself:
Feminism is the political movement for the liberation of women.

Original poster
loveyouradvice · 09/05/2018 22:14

Yup pudding the cotton ceiling was my peak-peak trans moment too.... I could NOT believe it when I first heard... my brain could not process that this was really happening here today rather than in an SF novel....

Unbelievably grateful to all the amazing posters on this board who I am learning so much from .... and like the new person I am becoming... as much as I dislike how the world is evolving around us....

OP posts:
Juells · 09/05/2018 22:14

Feminism is the political movement for the liberation of women.

...not to provide handmaids for every other bugger on the planet.

SarahCarer · 09/05/2018 22:15

@daimbar Nurture. I'm around little boys and girls a lot and I can see the socialisation at work. Your beliefs are incompatible with feminism in my opinion.

daimbars · 09/05/2018 22:15

I don't want to derail this thread with my lib fem opinions so I'll start a new one tomorrow. As you were.

Ekphrasis · 09/05/2018 22:18

I have a question for you rad fems who previously considered yourself liberal. Does it feel odd that your views are aligned with the most right wing in society? I can't think of any publication - even the Daily Mail - that doesn't acknowledge and accept trans women as women and trans men as men.

Nothing to do with political leanings; basic science peak transed me.

That and watching first hand how extreme gender stereotyping can really affect children's views of themselves and each other, including a child who thought they were in the wrong body for a while due to that stereotyping.

I do believe there are biological slight differences between the sexes (eg more boys tend to have additional needs) it that's got nothing to do with "gendered" items or stereotypes. In fact, in my professional capacity in education, due to a generalised higher number of additional needs in boys compared to girls, they can need the extra support and nurturing that's usually 'stereotypically' given to girls. (Of course all children need nurturing - the stereotype for boys is to 'toughen them up'.)

Realising all this and that it's rad fem made me realise I'm a rad fem.

AngryAttackKittens · 09/05/2018 22:19

While I'm very fond of Hadley Freeman, if she makes you a bit uncomfortable then your version of feminism has been watered down so far that it's like taking a glass of water and dropping a single drop of Ribena in it. Might change the color very slightly, does nothing at all to change the taste or make what you're drinking not water. Feminism in name only.

Ekphrasis · 09/05/2018 22:21

In all children I think it's nature first, then nurture.

When you work with children with additional needs, you see how nature caused extra challenges for them and also how the correct nurturing early on can make such huge differences - and how the lack of nurture can cause catastrophe.

DJLippy · 09/05/2018 22:22

@daimbars I am really interested in learning from you. I only just came around to this position - my mind is open. I want to really understand why you are opposed to radical feminism. Why you believe that transwomen are women? Looking forward to your lost - genuinely not being sarcastic Flowers

DJLippy · 09/05/2018 22:23

^looking forward to your post - darn my dyspraxic fingers!

Juells · 09/05/2018 22:24

@AngryAttackKittens

your version of feminism has been watered down so far that it's like taking a glass of water and dropping a single drop of Ribena in it.

Homeopathic feminism