Channel 4's Genderquake Debate is heavily criticised/ boycotted(?) by prominent transgender activists & allies .

[R0wantrees]

Transgender campaigners and organisations have released an open letter to Channel 4 criticising Genderquake, a season of programmes touted as an exploration of the gender debate, as "counterproductive".
Signees are particularly concerned about Genderquake: The Debate, a studio discussion hosted by Cathy Newman that promises to look at what gender means in 2018. It will discuss topics including: 'what defines our gender identity', 'how that affects our rights', 'should it be easier to change gender' and 'does gender matter'.

The letter, published by indy100 in full below, argues that the debate will give legitimacy to transphobia, prejudice and the notion that trans identities are up for discussion. This concern is presumably stoked by the presence of Australian-born academic and writer Germaine Greer on the panel, who has previously said transgender women "can't be women". continues...

"The letter is published in full below and has been signed by dozens of prominent transgender and non-binary activists and campaigners - and allies - alike, including Fox Fisher, Owl, Stephanie Hirst, Juno Roche, Travis Alabanza, Kate Llewellyn, Jack Monroe and India Willoughby."

www.indy100.com/article/genderquake-the-debate-transphobia-channel-4-open-letter-campaigners-germaine-greer-8341481

The 2 TIMs on the panel spoke for 17 minutes 10, and were interrupted 10 times; and the 5 females spoke for 17 minutes 26, and were interrupted 34 times.

t.co/FAvKFkfku2

Have C4/ Cathy Newman acknowledged how GG was mis-quoted yet?

Even my dad noticed!!

Not sure if this can be seen here but if you click on the link you can see the SS

Or go directly fron twitter link

twitter.com/Gabcsika_Me/status/994220006325080066

The 2 TIMs on the panel spoke for 17 minutes 10, and were interrupted 10 times; and the 5 females spoke for 17 minutes 26, and were interrupted 34 times.

I think they may have lost a lot of support by 'winning' this discussion. I know generally people don't notice when men dominated and talk over women, but this really wasn't the time to use that tactic. There will be many who will notice that there was a sex based different in behaviour here.

You don't need a debate if you live in an autocracy. This won't be debated they'll just try to sneak it through Parliament and hope nobody notices. We don't live in a democracy anymore. It's a sock puppet neo-liberal punch and judy show.

Yep look at the situation with so many new or refurbished buildings having all gender neutral toilets despite general preference being for single sex facilities. If decisions are being made behind closed doors, it doesn't matter if you've got the general public on your side - it will be too late before most people realise what's happened.

Let's not forget why MB was sacked from 2 jobs

So the advert so far on my timeline on this thread is 'Pretty little thing'

You don't scare me. I'm obviously not going to link.

Joan - you aren't alone in seeing a Hunger Games connection (or Altered Carbon for that matter). The end stage of this tail of capitalism has reached the stage where it's commodifying not only individuals but their actual bodies as well.

Lest we forget:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B8Q6D4a6TM

It's so odd that the generation who has grown up with the Hunger Games doesn't see it Lang. Maybe the identity worshippers were more into twilight or something.

I see Germaine Greer as vibrant and sexy because she was that vibrant and sexy woman as I was growing up but she didn't half give it out for equality.

She was and remains pertinent to this issue.

Greymisty

I'm afraid I don't have the study to hand, but I'm pretty certain that Stonewall's (albeit very unreliable) study about trans self harm claimed that 50% of people who transition are disabled.

The most shocking part was that this went apparently unremarked by them. I can't help thinking that the disability would be more to do with mental health than physical though.

And yes, it's always the most vulnerable in society who are targeted first. A power dynamic that transactivism subverts in a way that actually makes me feel a bit ill.

I do wonder if Cathy Newman was 'under orders' to give more airtime to CJ and MB. Both have recently been championed by C4 - CJ to speak about diversity in Parliament and MB with their own C4 programme in the Genderquake season ('What Makes a Woman').

I was privy to Newman's script... CAITLIN it read, CAITLIN, CAITLIN....
From Posie Parker, here:
mobile.twitter.com/ThePosieParker/status/994151987330584576

Datun

50%!? If that's at all accurate (no offense to Stonewall) then that is really interesting. We can assume it must be mostly MH and ASD type disability...and drawing any further conclusions about that will get deleted.

I will say tho...unrelated to debate obvs... that those who aren't neurologically typical including add/adhd are more prone to other brain disorders such as epilepsy. Random fact don't remember the stat for it unfortunately.

Also possible stonewall stats were gathered with people self id'ing disability as seen in Labour party recently.

I'm not a researcher but I do wish they bloody research things properly.

Hi, first time poster. I’ve been lurking here for awhile but haven’t stuck my head over the parapet yet.
I didn’t even make it to 10 minutes last night before I switched off in discussed. All I’m seeing today is penis heckle penis heckle, nothing about the shameless put up job that this so called debate actually was.
The only thing that slightly cheers me is the same thing that really scares me. Most people have no idea any of this is going on, so won’t have even seen it.
The women in my family, who would consider feminism a dirty word, would certainly have no truck with this gender identity nonsense either, but nobody is telling them what’s going on or how it might affect them. I have tried to mention it but you know, feminism… I very much doubt they’ll know about the erosion of their identity and rights as women until it’s too late. I don’t know how we get the word out but we need to. At the moment it feels like an insular debate taking place on social media, but of course social media is not where the results will hit home.
Anyway I don’t have anything particularly useful to add, other than to say that I’m here, and I’m with you.

Just watched it .... and TRULY SHOCKED....

Caitlin Jenner revered and treated as real celebrity - bizarre

Germaine Greer was - and remains - my hero - What she said was very clear and cogent, but equally coming from a different angle.... and I am amazed that C4 allowed her to be ambushed in a debate like that - absolutely shocking to do to anyone, but let alone using inaccurate data and then to keep haranguing... WHY? Made me feel they wanted to throughly discredit her

And wow ... Sarah Ditum - you are the best! Clear, cogent, succinct - lucky given the very limited airtime you got, and how you were talked over...Huge respect for how much great stuff you got across in these circumstances.

Shocked too by how they treated the audience... briefing them one way and treating them another...

HotRocker
there's a link to the petition,
The government proposes to amend the law to allow people to self-identify as men or women, and to stop allowing organisations in sensitive situations to exclude people of the opposite birth sex. We call for women to be consulted on how to protect women and girls' rights, safety, privacy and dignity.

More details
We call for:

• Respectful and evidence-based discussion about the impact of proposed changes and for women's voices to be heard.

• The government to consult with women’s organisations on how self-declaration would impact on women-only services and spaces, data-gathering, and monitoring of sex-based discrimination.

• The principle of single-sex spaces to be upheld – and where necessary extended.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

& some useful threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3233381-Gender-Critical-Resources-thread-help-with-argument

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2995738-Gender-ID-bill-Gender-Critical-To-Do-List

great stats by the way....

And how did they put together a panel with NOT ONE "regular man" on it... there are a good few out there who understand this debate and it would have been very interesting to have them there...

Greymisty, thanks for bringing up the disability/abuse stats. I think it's timely to remember what 'vulnerable' really means.

Re trans and the comorbidity with ASD in particular and also some other MH diagnosis, I guess it's not surprising. I mean, societal messages about gender are problematic for lots of people, particularly in terms of expectation and personal consonance. This can only be compounded for people who struggle with social constructs of all kinds.

I've watched the debate, and read comments her and elsewhere. Each "faction" claims that their "faction" was unfairly treated, and that the " other lot" were shown preference. My opinion is that it was all very unsatisfactory, but always would have been, given the issues and the personalities involved. And their individual " styles".

A number of people there were repeating their usual " personal"script. You can't blame them for that, but it was always going to create ill feeling within the audience, many of whom have heard the " same old same old".... from both sides.

Would it have had a better chance of working if there had just been the individual speakers, and no partisan audience to heckle and to egg each other on?

What was broadcast appears not to have been what the audience was promised. The more I read about this, the more I'm convinced it was never meant to be a grown up debate, simply sensationalism. If that is the case then C4 has done itself no favours. The complaints flooding onto Twitter are testament to that.

All we can hope now is another channel will take the bull by the horns and organise a proper debate where our issues can be debated and discussed.

Half a dozen of one and six of the other is it?

One side of this thinks women are just validation machines with a hole in and no right to speak. I wish we didn't have to treat this view like it is credible and pretend it is just as (more!) valid as the feminist view that women are human.

I honestly don't see why proper debate seems to be impossible. It seems to be beyond everyone on both TV and radio.

You just ask someone to speak for two minutes. Then shut the fuck up while another person responds.

For two minutes.

Repeat this process for half an hour.