Channel 4's Genderquake Debate is heavily criticised/ boycotted(?) by prominent transgender activists & allies .

[R0wantrees]

Transgender campaigners and organisations have released an open letter to Channel 4 criticising Genderquake, a season of programmes touted as an exploration of the gender debate, as "counterproductive".
Signees are particularly concerned about Genderquake: The Debate, a studio discussion hosted by Cathy Newman that promises to look at what gender means in 2018. It will discuss topics including: 'what defines our gender identity', 'how that affects our rights', 'should it be easier to change gender' and 'does gender matter'.

The letter, published by indy100 in full below, argues that the debate will give legitimacy to transphobia, prejudice and the notion that trans identities are up for discussion. This concern is presumably stoked by the presence of Australian-born academic and writer Germaine Greer on the panel, who has previously said transgender women "can't be women". continues...

"The letter is published in full below and has been signed by dozens of prominent transgender and non-binary activists and campaigners - and allies - alike, including Fox Fisher, Owl, Stephanie Hirst, Juno Roche, Travis Alabanza, Kate Llewellyn, Jack Monroe and India Willoughby."

www.indy100.com/article/genderquake-the-debate-transphobia-channel-4-open-letter-campaigners-germaine-greer-8341481

So trans identity is not up for debate but being a woman can be reduced to an identity that anyone can assume

This quote stood out for me:

A recent study conducted by Stonewall and YouGov show that two in five (41%) trans people and three in ten (31%) non binary people have experienced a hate crime or incident directly related to their gender identity in the last 12 months.

I wonder what the percentage of women would be if there was the ability to call misogyny a hate crime? Surely there must be many more incidents women have experienced simply related to their gender identity biological sex.

A hellish mixture of 'no debate' and preemptive defended in case when they are perceived to have 'lost' the debate and people collectively realise that the emperor has no clothes- dresses or otherwise.

(10pm this evening)
Channel 4 is holding a studio discussion, Genderquake: The Debate where a wide-ranging panel of guests with a variety of views will look at what gender means in 2018. The debate, which is part of a wider season on gender, will discuss topics including: what defines our gender identity, how that affects our rights, should it be easier to change gender and does gender matter anyway?

The debate will be hosted by Channel 4 News’ Cathy Newman and the panellists will include model and activist Munroe Bergdorf, leading feminist and academic Germaine Greer and US Television personality and Olympic gold medal winner Caitlyn Jenner. There will also be other panellists and speakers with a wide range of views.

Shaminder Nahal, Channel 4 Commissioning Editor said:

“This debate will stimulate important and insightful discussion with a wide variety of views from the panel and audience. Issues around gender now have a prominent position in the national conversation, with strong feeling on all sides. Channel 4 is well known for exploring challenging and emotive issues in a fair and balanced way and with this programme we want to help audiences understand and engage in these multi-faceted issues.”

www.channel4.com/info/press/news/channel-4-confirms-panellists-for-genderquake-the-debate

How do you know someone is non-binary just from looking at them?

How do they know themselves?

The signatories include all the great and good of transactivism.

But I can't help note the omission of Lily Madigan!

Fair point Fekko, I was just thinking say if a hate crime was being shouted at in the street - how would the shouter know that the person was non-binary and therefore could relate the insult/abuse to their non-binaryness?

Now if they've read the non-binary person's Twitter bio that's another matter...

If it's a hate crime to say 'excuse miss /son / missus / sir' to someone who doesn't 'feel' the appropriate category then I'm not calling anyone anything.

I did get called 'son' a couple of times on my youth due to short haircuts and 1980s fashions! If only I knew I could sue...

It does seem that most of the people who signed the letter weren't invited too... sour grapes?

This has the potential to be decent. If Germaine is allowed to speak without “transphobia” being shouted over her.

In the other hand CJ knows he isn't a woman and Bergdorf is highly vulnerable after being so homophobic.

The problem with Stonewall studies is that they are such bullshit. For eg their 'stats' re suicide aren't based on good practice and extremely irresponsible. Studies trying to show suicidality for a particular group always control for other factors and follow up with interviews; following up in itself usually halves the rate. Otherwise the results are not instructive.

They also constantly say trans people suffer most sexual violence, but then admit there are no actual rape stats for trans people. And the largest study undertaken shows that trans identifying females suffer far more sexual violence than trans identifying males (and this is a perfect eg of why we need these terms, cos this covers transwomen, transmen and trans non binary), which is a case of, yeah, of course, because they are female. Here's a link for that study: www.transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/usts/USTS%20Full%20Report%20-%20FINAL%201.6.17.pdf

Also re hate crime, England and Wales hate crime stats separates trans hate crime from LGB hate crime, and when put to scale for respective populations, LGB people still suffer hate crime at 5x the rate of trans people, yet there is no evidence that trans people massively underreport compared to LGB people. I think the discrepancy between reality and the claims of orgs like Stonewall here is that trans people will say that sex based pronouns are a hate crime, but it's not the case.

Think everyone will be disappointed by tonight's debate, which is probably as it should be. I'm really impressed with the organisation of it. Normally these things are flagged up so far ahead, they get nipped in the bud.

The problem with Stonewall studies is that they are such bullshit

in a nutshell!

I'm not trying to excuse these hate crime stats but you can get street harassment for a number of reasons - try being a goth and see how much crap you take. If I go out dressed like a boy I get shit for looking like a man. If I wear a short skirt I get abuse for looking like a slut. I would be very much interested in taking a closer look at the make up of these 'hate crimes.' Are males and females equally affected? What about the socio-economic factors? I am pretty sure that LM in Brighton get's far less bother than myself in inner city Manchester.
What is classed as hate crime? Physical assault or sexual harassment is one thing but what about 'misgendering.' Is that a hate crime now? FFS

Hell will freeze over before I miss the chance to see Greer, Burgdorf and Jenner in the same room!

Dusting off my Pompoms now and wondering if it would be too weird to paint a big G on my shirt.

Studies have also shown that the trans community suffers from high levels of suicide, where up to 45% of trans youth have attempted suicide and 84% have self harmed. This is directly related to the poor treatment they face in society, and there is a growing body of research showing similar numbers across the board

I really really hope that this^ comes up and it thoroughly debunked. Even if the stats were true it is massively irrespective to continually use them to promote a cause, and of course as a PP said Stonewalls stats are shit.

Having red hair, being 'too' fat/skinny, having a scar or disfigurement, being very tall /short... There's always something that some arse decides they really need to take you to task on.

With regards increase in transphobic hate crimes, I hope that there will be investigation into online statistical claims, for example the context in which there have been responses to some provocative TRA accounts & comments. Context is often lost.

There is without doubt some horrific online abuse which should be condemned.

The size/use of mass terf blocker accounts needs to be better understood.

Does this mean we will hear the voices of more moderate trans people?

@Itsallgoingtobefine I have become extremely cynical re these stats. I researched suicide studies re the trans community and not one had been conducted properly. I also contacted Rape Crisis Scotland re claims some of their centres were making that transwomen suffer 'disproportionate rates of sexual violence' to ask for their source, to which they said to ask the centres themselves, and when I did they said they got it from a trans org, and when I contacted the trans org they gave me one study of 60 people that only had stats for rape including attempted rape which is actually, then, not strictly speaking rape stats, for eg stats for rape and attempted rape are usually given separately, not least cos when they are added together that would usually double the rape rate. But also it was just a study of 60 people, so not at all instructive either.

In the link above, it's US not UK, but it is a huge study, and on page 205 fig 15.16 you will see how female trans identified people have higher rates of sexual violence than male trans identified people, which then begs the question of why they never split it that way in studies here...and then when you look at the fact that almost three women per week are killed by men in the UK, and that if the trans rate was anything close it'd be 2-3 per year and yet is nowhere near that, we are also told to believe regardless of this that trans people suffer far more male violence than women. Yeah right.

So whether it's hate crime, violence, suicide etc the stats are usually either from poor studies approached totally differently to (correctly carried out) studies for other groups and/or from super small samples, or simply pulled out of someone's arse, basically.

Germaine Greer debating with Muroe Bergdorf? OH I AM IN.

It's past my bedtime and I'll suffer tomorrow but so worth it