Posie: truthcrime harassment continues

[Pratchet]

Susie Green from Mermaids has appealed against the CPS decision not to pursue Posie.

Posie described truthfully what Susie Green did to her child in Thailand at the age of sixteen: surgery involving the removal of genitals, a decision so shocking to the Thai government they raised the age bar for such operations to 18.

A woman is being pursued and harassed for telling the truth. Can we show as much support as possible please.

We have highly developed frameworks for contested medical treatment in children - but the treatment has to be contested in the first place to set them in motion (by doctors, or social workers, or by parents if they disagree between each other, etc).

LangCleg Do budgetary constraints from the austerity cuts deter official interventions

I think it's worth bearing in mind that Susie Green will be well aware of how questionable her actions might seem to others and how close to the law she has sailed. Founding Mermaids and promoting what she has done might be seen as her way of justifying and protecting herself. My guess is that she knows deep-down she's in a precarious position and people in precarious positions tend to fight tooth and nail to protect themselves. By making a huge fuss about Posie's words she may think that what she is doing is turning the spotlight in Posie's direction — but she forgets that that light is bouncing back on herself, and on Mermaids, and illuminating them too. This is the downside of her tactic: the louder she shouts, the more people will look at her and what she's doing and the more people are likely to be asking 'Really? Is this really a sane and acceptable thing to be promoting?'

Hi there - we've posted over here about how to discuss the issue of transing children on Mumsnet. Please do make sure that you're all clear about where the line is in terms of the discussion of individual children's anatomy (absolutely not okay in any circumstances), or discussing the anatomy of children in general in what can appear to be intrusive detail.

So we cannot discuss the fact that in Canada children aged 13 are having double mastectomies?

What about FGM?
MGM?

Sexual development of children and the abuse that means they don't have one?

Do budgetary constraints from the austerity cuts deter official interventions

I don't think so but I'm no expert. They may have prevented pro-active initiatives in locating girls at risk for FGM, for example. But once treatment has been officially contested - it's usually a conflict between parent and doctor as per the recent cases of terminally ill children - the procedures are good. I imagine, in the case of a child with a trans identity who was being treated under an NHS service, doctors could equally contest treatment abroad if they felt it was not in the child's best interest.

I am astonished the police are wasting time and money on all this. I supported the @therealposieparker crowd fund and was fully aware of the terms. I have also received regular updates. Happy to make a further contribution if necessary.

Sorry for all the problems this is causing for Posie and hope she can stay strong. Really appreciate what she is doing.

Will contribute towards any action that can be taken against the police.

@therealposieparker

So we cannot discuss the fact that in Canada children aged 13 are having double mastectomies? ?

Yes, but not in relation to individual children, or when discussed in detail with a view to shockin or jolting others, rather than in the context of a measured factual discussion. In the latter case, it would become intrusive and/or inflammatory if it were repeated several times.

What do you mean not discussed in detail? Are you going to ban discussion of 'excessive detail' of FGM? Would it be allowed to discuss male babies dying after circumcisions? Or is that too shocking?

People should be shocked and / or jolted that such acts are carried out on children. I hope we never get blase about them.

I agree people should know the reality of what they are doing
Leaving a child sterile and without sexual feelings
Can we not discuss what is already shared publicly such as Jazz Jennings?

With working in the law know there are a number of similar cases coming down the line

please post carefully , if this gets to court Posie will require a great deal of financial support , not just words

Absolutely Doc

I'm shocked that 1) that there was no charges brought on the mother for taking their child to another country to have an operation that was not permitted on a child 2) that the same mother seems to have so much power that she is having another mother investigated by the police for daring to speak about it

Are parents allowed to sanction any medical treatment that they wish and to take their child out of the country for that treatment?

Only if they are white . I know that anyone remotely tanned who wanted to take their child to a place notorious for operating on children's sexual organs would have police and children's services all over them.

I get the feeling we cant talk about something someone has done and said that they have done.wierd

Hang on a minute.

If someone has gone on national television and given numerous interviews about their actions regarding their own child, and made public details of their child's anatomy and genitals - why can't the facts that the parent chose to put in the public domain be discussed?

They put their child on the NHS website FFS.

sallyannemum

I have two questions for you. Both are yes/no answers.

1.Do you believe humans can change sex?

1. Is castration defined as the removal of the testicles of a male human or animal?

Thank you.

Many of us here on mn believe that all this will lead to future prosecutions from sterile/detransitioning adults who had operations/hormones thrust upon them when they were not old enough to make these decisions - I have seen several posters express this view.

I hope it is clear and unambiguous who will be held responsible at that time.

Please do make sure that you're all clear about where the line is in terms of the discussion of individual children's anatomy (absolutely not okay in any circumstances), or discussing the anatomy of children in general in what can appear to be intrusive detail.

Protection of individual children: yes, I’m on board with that.

Not discussing this in general terms - how can we do this please without being deemed shocking? Because I cannot think of any way of discussing this that is not shocking. The very idea of it is shocking.

. I find FGM for example shocking and disturbing and I want it to be talked about. I find the affirmative treatment stream shocking too and I find the treatment of minors with irreversible and powerful drugs and surgery about as shocking as it gets.

How are we to discuss this in a sanitised way? Can we even discuss it in a sanitised way?

I support Posie. But I also kind of hope it does go to court, as surely nothing will come of it except for more and more people becoming aware of exactly what Mermaids is.

I actually have my own battle after being reported for a post I made about child abuse/transkids. No specific child was mentioned, nor was I abusive or anything in the post. I was arguing with a transactivist (one who has a name involving vegetables..many will know who I mean) at the time so I suspect it was them who reported me. I am fairly sure nothing will come of it, but DH is quite worried about it all.

I kind of think TRAs are shooting themselves in the foot, with this seemingly mass police reporting thats going on. And I do not understand how the police have time to interview people like me, Posie and Linda Bellos under caution, when they seemingly do not have time or resources for anything else. The mother of my stepkids is currently being stalked/threatened by an abusive ex, and she has basically been told that unless she is actually attacked/hurt or he turns up at her house when the kids are there as threatened (and is still there when the police come) that nothing can be done. Its all shit.

[Said Susie Green]: ‘As a toddler, always headed for the dolls in toy shops. Initially, I did think it was a phase but , as she was then, became disruptive in class, ran away from school, loathed having her hair cut and would rip off her school uniform and put on girls’ clothes when she got home.’

But like I said List, some people clearly have serious clout.

I was arguing with a transactivist (one who has a name involving vegetables..many will know who I mean) at the time so I suspect it was them who reported me

I think I do. If it's the one I'm thinking of it's interesting to look up their username on google in relation to a site with a name involving fruit.

But this person's mother has publically talked about what happened from a medical pov. I'm not saying anything which their mother hasn't disclosed to all and sundry.

@QueenOfQuacks

Hang on a minute.

If someone has gone on national television and given numerous interviews about their actions regarding their own child, and made public details of their child's anatomy and genitals - why can't the facts that the parent chose to put in the public domain be discussed?

Because we don't think it's right to discuss children's genitals on social media, but unfortunately we can only control what goes on on Mumsnet.