Employment law and pregnant men

[YesILikeItToo]

Does anyone know what the impact of including transmen in the legal definition of man would be in the context of workplace law? Would it erode rights arising from rules on indirect discrimination if men get pregnant too? Or would the fact that so few men would be involved leave these rights in place?

Fertility issues need to be made absolutely EXPLICIT to people wanting medical transition, and where they are not provdied on NHS / not possible this also needs to be EXPLICIT

A little while ago I came across the website for a clinic in San francisco which was commendable in how it set out the implications of GRS for men. In very factual and clear words it explained how even taking a low dose of female hormones could prevent someone from fathering a child, as although in most cases normal erectile and sperm-producing functions returned after stopping hormones, in some cases they did not. So even at the initial stage patients were encouraged to consider sperm freezing. I really hope that everyone who is considering any form of intervention is given similarly clear information about the implications and their options (although that doesn't completely address the issue about younger people probably not seeing themselves wanting children)

Keyboard I hope this question isn’t too personal but I have been down the infertility road and have a good knowledge of the process.

You say that your partner has been rendered infertile due to the hormones and you have PCOS and other unexplained problems. However if your partner is infertile then are you sure that you wouldn’t be able to conceive naturally anyway? Any ttcing would be effectively pointless. Have you had investigations?
This is nothing to do with being trans btw, just one infertile person to another.

This thread highlights the fundamental problem with gender ideology.
Feminists argue the only difference between men and women are their role in the reproductive process. Yes, women are more likely to be "feminine", but a predilection to "masculinity" does not mean you are less of a woman.
Then along comes transgender ideology. Suddenly it is horrifying to be a butch woman, you must be a man, pretend to be a man. Yet butch women have been having babies for ever...
The real problem here is subscribing to the fallacious view that what makes you a woman is ladybrain, and what makes you a man is manbrain.
Whereas actually if you define them in their real meanings as role in the reproductive process then the dysphoria goes poof!
What's needed is NOT body altering medical intervention to conform to some mystical brain soul.
What's needed is a health dose of radical feminism. Countless people on reddit gender critical have cited it as the key thing that resolved their dysphoria.

I think they'd use a sperm donor, Simon.

I guess Eresh. But up until then ttcing is incredibly stressful and really rather pointless if they both have fertility problems.
If it is known that there is a problem with the sperm have they done all the tests on Keyboard or is Keyboard just assuming that PCOS means no babies?
If they will be using a donor anyway could that not be done at home?

Keyboard, how old are you?

I’m alarmed by your comment about your partner breastfeeding. There is no way a male, even with a cocktail of chemicals, can produce enough milk to satisfy a growing baby. There is also no need, as you will be able to feed or give formula which is proven to be safe. That one case that was touted in the media has so many holes and questions (it was based entirely on the TW’s account that they managed to feed) that it proves nothing.

I worry that you’re being encouraged to do difficult and dangerous reproductive Labour, which is not compatible with your identity or dysphoria, so your partner can fulfil a fantasy of motherhood.

The definition of female is that of gestator of the species. The definition does not include feeling like conforming to stereotypes. It's completely illogical to say you don't identify with your biological role in the reproductive process, yet plan to fulfil that role.
People who follow this illogical view clearly have been manipulated into thinking 'woman' and 'man' means 'feeling like performing a stereotype'.
Free yourself from the shackles of this ideology! Dress how you like! Sleep with who you like!
Just don't tell the rest of us that biological descriptors now mean 'feelings' and that we are being hateful and bigoted.

I'm trying really hard to understand this but i think this was nailed several posts ago.

My god, while the NHS is on its knees, there are people who not only think the NHS should supply them with hormones to make them infertile, but should then pay for fertility treatment afterwards.

Everyone has choices to make but there are also consequences.

There are many people who are infertile who struggle to get funding.

I'm sorry you are in this position OP, but I think this is an example of why the whole premise of gender is fundamentally unhelpful.

While I do sympathise with jellyfish I can confirm that the his is on its knees and every women who goes through the hell that is infertility is met with misognony and innuendo from so called specialists as to the cause of our infertility.

I would also like to ask jellyfish why she thinks it's a good idea to give her partner a cocktail of drugs to make them lactate, maybe, and think that the milk is safe enough, or even enough, to give to their possible future child?

I couldn't lactate and was refused drugs because they are not deemed safe especially for baby. Would it not be better bottle feed? I don't feel less of a mother because I didn't breastfeed tbh.

I also think your partner should look into the responsibility of the clinic which started them on gr drugs, seeing as they didn't pit forth the option of freezing his sperm as I do believe they are supposed to do

Interesting thread.

I would like to know a bit more of the science, ie it’s been mentioned upthread that chemically-induced male lactation wouldn’t supply enough milk or would pass the drugs onto the baby - is there any research to confirm either way?

While I find it a bit depressing that this amount of complicated is the answer rather than being gender non-conforming parents (and setting a great example for the child in so doing - why not be a mother who does the ‘Dad stuff’) - I’m another one who wishes keyboard and his partner well. It must take some (metaphorical) balls to come on here and talk about something so personal and painful, given that MN is characterised as a pit of shrieking transphobe snake harpies on Twitter etc.

SporadicSpartacus From the actual paper it's clear that the trans identified male in question did not produce sufficient milk to exclusively feed the baby.

But quantity is just one issue. A mother's body produces colostrum in the first few days which provides important protection and nutrients for the baby. This is so vital that in cases where mum is still nursing an older child and gives birth to a new baby, her body resets milk production to benefit the baby (ie labour induces a restart of lactation from colostrum onwards).

A woman's body also produces different kinds of milk in different quantities depending on the needs of the nursing baby. It's an interplay a man's body is not capable of mimicking, it simply doesn't function that way.

That being said, there are many many reasons why breastfeeding doesn't work out for mother and/or baby. I see no point in anyone beating themselves up for not being able to do this - today's baby formula is excellent and babies who are exclusively formula fed are thriving just as much as breastfed ones.

If at all possible, just the first two weeks would be highly beneficial but if it isn't, it doesn't mean you're an inadequate or bad mother. The only important thing is to ensure that the baby is properly fed, and dreams of breastfeeding sometimes have to stay dreams for the benefit of the baby. It should come first. Always.

Thank you, @CharlieParley. It’s not a subject I know too much about.

Women are pretty incredible, really.