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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Hello all, man here! am i welcome to talk and learn a bit about stuff ?

622 replies

PleaseCustomizeCharacter · 03/05/2018 16:32

Ive done a little browsing in the feminism section and i admit its intriguing, please forgive my ignorance as i dont know alot about this all.

I just want to start by saying i was raised to respect everyone and i truly do, my view on equality is simply if some one, man or woman is good enough to do the specific job they aspire for then they have every right to get said job/goal, again if this is slight ignorance forgive me, i post this topic because i would like to learn and be less ignorant, love me some knowledge.. :)

So i suppose my question is broad and depends on the individual person's view, but what is the over reaching/ultimate goal of feminism ? or what does it mean to you personally ? and please, dont think im trolling or anything i genuinely want to learn a thing or two, thanks :)

OP posts:
BarrackerBarmer · 04/05/2018 10:38

You forgot 'shrill' 'hysterical' and 'overemotional' nelly.

Nice feministing there.

Marmitesoldiers · 04/05/2018 10:40

This might be derailing the thread a bit (and we seem to have lost the OP anyway) but by expecting everyone to read academic feminist ideology in order to understand feminism, we’re surely failing to reach people (men and women) who find this inaccessible. Personally I learn better from hearing people’s lived experiences: what feminism means to them and how this plays out in their everyday life. For this reason, I find Bi11yOneMate’s posts much more useful than some of the other stuff on here.

Why do people have to be super clever to be included in the feminist discussion?

For instance, I find the Daily Mail’s obsession with female appearance rather than anything they do to be an incredibly negative socialising tool. But weirdly it is read by more women than men. Why are more women reading this crap that reduces them to only what they look like?

Why are men not more scandalised by FGM? Can we picture a situation where men’s sexual parts are routinely cut out to ensure they remain ‘modest’. Why are women still buying into that and actually arranging for it to happen to their daughters?

Why are women still regularly saved by men in tv shows. I’ve never been rescued by a man in my life so why does this keep being played out in popular culture?

Why are men ‘lads’ and women ‘slags’?

Why is it other women that didn’t believe me when I was sexually harassed by a man in the office?

I’d love to understand the mechanisms that lead to this better. I’d like to hear what other women’s perceptions of female everyday inequalities are, so that I can challenge it when I see it. The thing is, you don’t know what you haven’t become aware of yet.

Muckingfuddles · 04/05/2018 10:43

Well, the majority didn’t give particularly helpful references. The majority were unnecessarily rude Hmm

MillicentF · 04/05/2018 10:49

Marmitesoldiers- the problem is that it’s quite difficult to know where to start when a post is as broad as yours. And another problem is that very often any attempt to explain is dismissed as patronizing or over intellectual.

Another problem I find is that I try to explain something- I have been an active feminist for 40 years so I do know my stuff!- and the response is either loads more “but whys?”or “But that’s just your opinion”. (Sometimes it is, of course - but so are many things) or another variation on the “well, I can’t be a feminist then because I like men” trope.

Auntnelly · 04/05/2018 10:53

I am a feminist in that I believe men and women should be treated with equal respect. If earned. I have no respect for ‘arseholes’ male or female.
At least op now knows what feminism is, straight from the horses mouths.
Well played.

BesmirchingMotherhood · 04/05/2018 10:56

Aunt and Mucking. Why don’t you answer OP’s question instead of telling us off then?

And when randoms off the internet turn up and ask me to do shit for them, I don’t think it’s me that’s being rude by not doing their shit for them.

Auntnelly · 04/05/2018 10:58

He wasn’t asking you to do shit for him. Most threads on mumsnet ask questions? Are you rude on all of those threads too?

Marmitesoldiers · 04/05/2018 11:03

That’s fair enough MillicentF I can imagine it’s frustrating but maybe not a reason to give up, as it’s the only way things are going to change and people rarely say, oh yes, I’ll give up my deeply held beliefs just because you’ve convinced me with your arguments. But you may have just shifted them a fraction, even if they’re not aware of it.

I suppose what I’m trying to say is, you’ve probably already won the argument with people who already read Naomi Wolf. But how can the argument shift for people who are firmly in the, ‘I never experienced sexism in my life’ camp. Surely it’s only by holding up a mirror to those instances of casual inequality that they’re socialised not to notice that awareness will change.

As I say, there are probably millions of everyday experiences that I’m socialised not to notice, thaf I’d like to become aware of. So that I can change things for my dc.

Auntnelly · 04/05/2018 11:05

Hi op, sadly you are not welcome because you happen to have a penis. It’s great that you’ve done some browsing on what feminism means and want to know more. Unfortunately, we are still living in a world where women have to prove that they are as worthy as men. One day I hope we will be viewed as equals without a need to prove anything. But anyway, I’ve said too much because let’s remember you have a penis. If you ever decide to change that, like you know become trans, you’ll be slated for that too. Because only females born with vaginas are welcomed here in the quest for world domination.

MillicentF · 04/05/2018 11:14

auntnrlly- I asked him to ask specific questions which I would have been happy to answer. He declined. Loads of people gave him loads of comments an$ stuff to read. Why are you ignoring all that?

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 04/05/2018 11:15

Most threads on mumsnet ask questions?

Yeah. But I suspect that if you go over to the Doghouse and say 'I have an 18 month old daughter and I would like a nice gentle rescue dog. Where should I go to get one?' at least 40% of your responses will be 'are you fucking kidding? Read some threads here and then come back if you have questions that aren't 'do my homework for me''

As a test why don't you pop into Adoption and ask them where you can get a nice newborn baby with no medical issues? Grin

MillicentF · 04/05/2018 11:15

“But how can the argument shift for people who are firmly in the, ‘I never experienced sexism in my life’ camp. Surely it’s only by holding up a mirror to those instances of casual inequality that they’re socialised not to notice that awareness will change”

But people are doing this all the time!

BesmirchingMotherhood · 04/05/2018 11:16

Nelly, if someone turned up on the Dog board and said ‘so tell me about dogs then?’ how do you think it’d go?

MillicentF · 04/05/2018 11:18

I often think that people who go on about FWR being scary should spend half an hour on the dog board.............

Auntnelly · 04/05/2018 11:23

Is the dog board scarier than AIBU Grin
Millicent, I’m not aiming my outburst at everyone. There were some helpful responses, including yours Wink

MillicentF · 04/05/2018 11:30

“Millicent, I’m not aiming my outburst at everyone”

It was a bit of a bizarre outburst then- because as far as I can see, it did not reflect the views of anyone who responded, even the tetchy ones. It could even be interpreted as a generalized attempt to discredit feminism, and provide ammunition to someone who has already said that most of what he had heard was negative.......

Marmitesoldiers · 04/05/2018 11:30

But people are doing this all the time.

Yes you’re right, but not on this thread. And not in some of the other threads I’ve read from feminism chat. It just seems to be people getting very angry, which is of course is their right but not always explaining why in ways that can be understood by people who are not steeped in feminist ideology.

Auntnelly · 04/05/2018 11:36

Not bizarre at all. If it was aimed at everyone then it would have been generalised. You interpret what I’m saying incorrectly. It was aimed at those who basically told him to crawl back under the rock he came out from with his testicles swingle sadly between his legs.

Auntnelly · 04/05/2018 11:37

Don’t need me to reinforce the negativity he’d heard. The majority on here did that all by themselves!

MillicentF · 04/05/2018 11:46

"It was aimed at those who basically told him to crawl back under the rock he came out from with his testicles swingle sadly between his legs."

Oh purhlease.........

leggere · 04/05/2018 12:00

One man has created this much fuss about himself Ha ha, ha! This is exactly what a lot of men do, cause a problem then turn it round! The man did nothing wrong (except apologise too much for nothing, I wouldn't have apologised at all, he can introduce himself however he effing likes). Note bewilderness, I've changed to your way of swearing. See how easy it is?

MillicentF · 04/05/2018 12:04

No, he did nothing wrong. Except say that he had only heard negative views of feminism and refuse to say what he actually wanted to know.

Auntnelly · 04/05/2018 12:06

Too much imagery? Okay, I’ll stop but only because you said purhlease.
We are on a platform here to present feminism however we choose. I just feel that is a strange choice to present it so poorly, that is all.

MillicentF · 04/05/2018 12:10

So what would you have said to him?

leggere · 04/05/2018 12:26

Well he was too busy apologising profusely for introducing himself in the wrong way! MN feminists have quite a reputation for being unwelcoming, micky taking man haters! High five mn feminists, way to go!