Hello all, man here! am i welcome to talk and learn a bit about stuff ?

[PleaseCustomizeCharacter]

Ive done a little browsing in the feminism section and i admit its intriguing, please forgive my ignorance as i dont know alot about this all.

I just want to start by saying i was raised to respect everyone and i truly do, my view on equality is simply if some one, man or woman is good enough to do the specific job they aspire for then they have every right to get said job/goal, again if this is slight ignorance forgive me, i post this topic because i would like to learn and be less ignorant, love me some knowledge.. :)

So i suppose my question is broad and depends on the individual person's view, but what is the over reaching/ultimate goal of feminism ? or what does it mean to you personally ? and please, dont think im trolling or anything i genuinely want to learn a thing or two, thanks :)

I've said a number of times that I would like to hear what the man has to say

I think you must be the most accomplished feminist that ever lived.

leggere, taking the LGBT community as an example of what happens when authoritarian males are included in the group it should be clear why women do not think it possible for men to be feminists.
They simply take over and crowd out the women. In the case of the LGBT community the T has crowded out the L&G.
Women shout because they are not being heard.
Men shout because they are not being obeyed.

You are entitled to think that women should be of service to men.
I am entitled to refuse to be of service to men.

I don't have a problem with men being feminists - my DH is a pretty good approximation of a male feminist. In that he never blathers on about feminism, ie, never thinks he knows it better than women and 1) treats women as equal human beings, and 2) never expects his voice to be treated as more important than a woman's.

He's also great because because he gets rid of spiders for me, but doesn't kill them.

In this thread posters could have explained to the OP what is happening at the moment with the trans issue and the danger it poses to women and girls, but oh no, just tell him he's phrased his op wrongly and that he needs to read books. Another opportunity missed!

Has the OP deregistered or is there another reason you haven’t taken this suggestion upon yourself instead of whining about man-hating harpies in this thread? Makes your missed opportunity spiel somewhat unconvincing.

It's just really, really easy to get into that "Onion" territory, really quickly when men do feminism:

www.theonion.com/man-finally-put-in-charge-of-struggling-feminist-moveme-1819569515

That struck me as odd also, Dixie.
Why would women criticize women on the thread for not serving the man instead of just stepping up and walking their talk? We know why.

I don't think I said men should be feminists. I want them to be encouraged to join in discussions, so that we can explain the problems many of them cause to women. DD is lesbian and part of LGBT. She has no problems discussing issues with men. I never said women should be of service to men, either! You are either a shit stirring TRA or you are very damaged by men (as many of us are) and haven't received enough therapy. You don't seem to give a shit about what other women want on these threads and you're delusional, you think you're in charge. Hence I am convinced you are a man. Goodnight, I'm sure we'll converse again.

Goodnight, I'm sure we'll converse again.

No, we won't. I do not converse with verbally abusive people like you.

leggere

I’m sure you could have made yourself welcoming and useful to the OP in the time it took to write your last post. You’ll spend time trying to get the last word but you won’t spend time helping out the poor fella?

I think they are in contention for the Newt Gengrich "Anyone who quotes me is lying" award.

If you had spent any time at all on this board, you would know how heavily we are trolled by men saying "hey, just some questions" - and then turning out to be full blown MRAs - nasty misogynists - not decent men.

I don't know who you think is a TRA - I haven't seen any signs of the TRA on this thread.

I don't know who you think is a TRA

That would be me, ToeToToe.

A few of the people who have been trolling this thread have been accusing me of being a man here for nefarious purposes. I thought it a joke at first. Unfortunately not. No more than I should have expected from a person who thinks women are worse than men, given the aspersions I cast upon them.
There is a bunch of old women's libbers on this forum and we all sound kinda similar. Gives me a warm fuzzy.

Concern trolling FWR by mobbing - hmm new game - methinks there also was targeting going on. Trolls are also motivated by what psychologists call "atypical social rewards" I wish these bloody toddler trolls would get a life and go do something useful for a change instead of jerking off at disrupting others

Good Goddess Bewilderedness you are playing a long, long game - I mean you must be the ultimate MRA double agent with a cover so good you had us all fooled

I counted 6 trolling usernames and 1 undecided

Anyone else?

I've said a number of times that I would like to hear what the man has to say and either been completely ignored or told what the man is doing "wrong".

It's not like it's hard to know what men have to say. They say it whether they're invited or not, just about everywhere.

Just from the few months I've been reading MN, the blokes who roll up, start a thread, and then demand answers, frequently get their heads handed to them.

If I, as a white woman, rolled up to a forum for PoC, and said, "right, explain this racism thing to me", I'd get chopped off at the knees. And that would be perfectly fair - because that would indicate that I hadn't respected those people enough to do the research, to listen, to start questioning my own attitudes. To ask myself was it even a good idea to join a conversation where I might wish to be an ally, but had no place in forming the conversation. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

It might be a different matter if the OP had said, "Look, I've read all these things, but I have a question." Instead his assumptions (giving him the benefit of the doubt), were that the subject of feminism is so lacking in complexity that he can turn up and get a couple of paragraphs which explain it all; that the members of the forum have nothing better to do than explain feminism 101; and that a group of woman would happily drop their own topics of conversation because a bloke appears. But women are nice and they tried.

It's not respectful. You wouldn't turn up to a neuroscience conference, collar the keynote speaker and ask, "is the brain that thing under your hair and between your ears?"

Some years ago women got so frustrated with this behavior from men that they started a blog called "Finally Feminism 101" to send these men off to, just in case they really did want to know.

Lo and behold thebewilderness, I did a quick search on "introduction to feminism", and this appeared, "Finally, A Feminism 101 Blog", (finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/purpose/).

I was listening to an interview with Deborah Francis-White, of The Guilty Feminist podcast, and she told a story about being approached by a man after a show and him saying the he was uncomfortable because the podcast was all about women and the audience was mostly women. He suggested to her that she should make it more comfortable for men, in order, of course. to make the feminism message more palatable (I'm imagining one of those concerned but authoritarian male voices here) to men.

And she replied that women are used to feeling uncomfortable in many spaces, and that he should, and here I paraphrase, stick his opinion in his ear."

And that's kind of the point her isn't it? Lots of women talking to each other about the things which concern them. And if a man appears and isn't comfortable, or doesn't like the way he's responded to, he can stay or go as he pleases. The forum doesn't need to accommodate men, if men find it uncomfortable.

The podcast is here: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3cswp1b

It is very interesting that some new posters are calling The Bewilderness an MRA. I have been reading her commentary for years on different sites and find the allegation hilarious. It is akin to calling Paul Elam/Donald Trump/Bill Cosby TERFS.

What is there to say about a verbally abusive person who talks like that and then has the nerve to complain that other people are rude besides ding ding ding we have a DARVO.

Why because I said you weren't funny. Which actually you arent. Instead of spending your entire life loathing men and moaning about how they get the better end of the deal how about using your energy to prove actually you are equal if not better. Bitching about it is hardly going to get your message across is it. I manage to run a business look after 3 children one of whom has multiple potentially life threatening issues and keep a house clean and actually manage to keep up my own hobbies and interests and far from.resenting men I feel accomplished and strong that I can do this. My partner of ten years respects me for this and actually has admitted admiration at the things I manage to get done. I have had issues after birth and I am.still struggling after two surgeries I am being checked for cancer on Saturday with gynae issues in having as a result of said surgery.......So tell me now.......if I don't feel inferior to man. Why do you?

Holy Crap! Apologies, still on pg 12 and have to get to bed, but just wanted to say this thread is like reading high drama. I'm yelling at the damn screen 'Look out it's a tag team!' and 'OMG Rufus is not a deer?!'

Our plucky heroine standing strong against the effing @s. The comic relief jumping in to make me laugh every time I was holding my breath in fear that she would give in to temptation and tell them to FOTTFSOFATFOSM. ( I sure as hell was )

bewilderness [small shiny gold woman statue] (Note the lack of @)

The fact that I wake up and this is still at the top of threads in this forum is telling. One man has created this much fuss about himself in an area reserved for the challenge to systems of oppressive male power.

That's why men have no place in feminist arenas. They suck the life out of our organising power and devour our time and resources.

I suggest we let this thread and his ego slink away?

If you can tell me why this one male was met with the attitude he was then I'll possibly understand a little more. I can merely see some intolerant Individuals bleating about a course but refusing to educate people

Cause even....