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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

MNHQ Deletion Policy

935 replies

TheUterati · 30/04/2018 17:03

Earlier today the Trans Park Run thread was deleted in its entirety because SOME posts alleging cheating were deemed to be 'not in the spirit' of MN.

We have a thread about that running.

I have just been deleted on the Heather Peto thread for posting this:

"Bless..."

A post intended to be mildly dismissive.

That was deleted for breaking talk guidelines.

Give me a fucking break MNHQ.

"Bless..." gets a deletion!??!?!

TRA really have got you on a short chain, haven't they?

OP posts:
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RefuseToDenounceBiology · 30/04/2018 20:17

I wasn't particularly talking about you tbh.

Just a mother with a trans child who feels unwelcome here anymore and will now report any instances I see of transphobia.

In an anonymous forum I am skeptical of anyone being who/what they say they are - especially if they set out with a combative stance.

Ereshkigal · 30/04/2018 20:17

What they want is to shut us up and make us comply so that they can simultaneously remove our ability to speak while they enjoy the power they have over us by not letting us speak.
They want to enjoy our erasure.

Yes. Because they are misogynists.

KatherinaMinola · 30/04/2018 20:18

Yes, and the Biscuit emoticon will need to be removed entirely - its usual purpose is to belittle / express disbelief etc.

Not to mention the Hmm - even in the list its meaning is given as 'Sceptical'.

MsMcWoodle · 30/04/2018 20:18

I'm going to repeat this post because I think it's important:

Suddenly it has all become clear.
The TRAs do not want to change our minds and really believe that people can change sex.
What they want is to shut us up and make us comply so that they can simultaneously remove our ability to speak while they enjoy the power they have over us by not letting us speak.
They want to enjoy our erasure.

gendercritter · 30/04/2018 20:18

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

MNHQ
HebeMumsnet · 30/04/2018 20:19

Thanks, @ReluctantCamper - that is precisely the case.

We know everyone won't always agree with decisions we make, and yes, the boards are moderated by a team of people across the days and evenings, so clearly it's never going to be an exact science, but we do all do our best to moderate according to Talk Guidelines, and honestly, personal opinion is just not a factor. We moderate according to guidelines, full stop. Sometimes perhaps one person's 'goady' is another's 'mildly cheeky but amusing' but on the whole we think we are as fair as we can be.

We know we don't always get it right and we can't please everyone all the time either, but we are all working towards the same goal on these threads - to allow an important debate to continue.

We do rely on Mumsnetters themselves to keep the discussions pleasant and civil. It's only when they become unpleasant and uncivil that we take them down. We believe passionately in freedom of speech, but, as one of the few places where discussions like this can still take place, we need everyone to participate in keeping the debate polite if we are to be able to continue with it and we do very much appreciate your help with this.

MsMcWoodle · 30/04/2018 20:19

Yes Ereshkigal!

KatherinaMinola · 30/04/2018 20:19

MNHQ need also to have a policy about vexatious reporting.

True.

KatherinaMinola · 30/04/2018 20:24

@HebeMumsnet I think if you will not allow "bless" or "yawn" then you do need to delete the Biscuit and the Hmm from the list of MN emoticons, because these are in the same rank of (fairly mild) rudeness.

Rufustheconstantreindeer · 30/04/2018 20:25

MNHQ need also to have a policy about vexatious reporting

Abso-bloody-lutley

who the fuck reports 'yawn' for gods sake Grin

Rufustheconstantreindeer · 30/04/2018 20:25

Apart from me moving forward as i didnt realise until now that its as bad as a personal attack

ReluctantCamper · 30/04/2018 20:25

oh yeah Rufustheconstantreindeer this is gonna be fun.

I mean Supermatch has been pretty darn goady on this thread.

I've never really reported posts, I think they should all stand, even the one that compared me to a member of the KKK. But I'm always up for a little mischief.

Ellenripleysalienbaby · 30/04/2018 20:29

Datun knocks it out the park once again with another amazing post. I hope you read it Iwillreport

Rufustheconstantreindeer · 30/04/2018 20:29

I agree with katherine

I love that hmm face

gendercritter · 30/04/2018 20:32

There is no need and it’s very hurtful to a trans woman to remind her that she wasn’t born the way she felt. Ie:calling her a male in any way

I'm sure no one here wants to actively be unkind to your child. But can you see this issue isn't really about individuals? We need to be able to discuss how trans issues compete and conflict with women's issues. For that we need to be able to say trans women are men. It isn't meant to do harm or to goad: it's about protecting women.

I have at one stage of my life been obese, in my case due to a medical issue beyond my control. It caused me misery to the point of being suicidal. I grew up thin, I had an internal identity as a thin woman. Looking in the mirror caused me so much pain. Society treated me terribly because society is very cruel to overweight people at worst. Men didn't want to sleep with me because of how I looked. At no point throughout this awful time did I insist that people maintain a fiction that I was thin, even though that would have made my life hugely easier. I didn't insist people treat me with kid gloves in order to cause me less pain or that men who didn't want to, sleep with me to protect my ego. I had to suck it up and deal with it.

I'm now a size 12 and much happier. Of course, alongside receiving medical treatment, I was essentially able to modify my body through my own will to bring it more in line with my internal sense of who I was and so it isn't a perfect parallel to being trans. But there are similarities. Society should not have to make adaptations which harm a majority of people to suit the fragility of a tiny minority.

ReluctantCamper · 30/04/2018 20:32

and yes, as always Datun is the voice of reason.

AnitaLovesVictor · 30/04/2018 20:35

In the days of yore, a poster signing up with a goady name who said they were here to report posts would have been considered 'not in the spirit of mumsnet'. Men's rights activists, in the past, were frequently shown the door because they were "here to be inflammatory".

But now that's just fine - but 'bless' and 'yawn' are being deleted.

This is not even-handed. This is a very recent change in moderation - and it is the opposite to the sentiments Justine wrote in the Times.

ReluctantCamper · 30/04/2018 20:36

good post gendercritter, and I think the only conclusion I can come to is that transactivists don't understand, or more likely don't care about the harm that is done to women by upholding the fiction that humans can change sex.

AngryAttackKittens · 30/04/2018 20:43

This is not even-handed. This is a very recent change in moderation - and it is the opposite to the sentiments Justine wrote in the Times.

Exactly. It may identify as even-handed, but one side being as goady as it likes while the other is reminded that it must walk on eggshells is not a commonsense definition of that term.

RefuseToDenounceBiology · 30/04/2018 20:46

It may identify as even-handed

Thanks for making me smile kittens

CoteDAzur · 30/04/2018 20:46

Supermatch - Re "I'd like to examine this phrase please and discuss it openly? There is no such thing as transwomen - they are men. The Gender Recognition Act 2004 states: ... Is the statement in question not either braking the law, or encouraging people to do so? Does it also contravene the Equality Act? What do you think?"

I think that it breaks the law as much as I do now by saying... A teenager aged 15 past puberty is biologically an adult, even if she is a "child" in the eyes of the law".

You need to understand that what law accepts for legal purposes is not the same thing as what actually is. Just like corporations are not "persons" even though law accepts them as such.

ZenNudist · 30/04/2018 20:47

Deleting posts simply saying "bless" and "yawn" not only makes a thread more difficult to read but gives the impression that something awful was said. That must help the TRA agenda that MN is a hotbed of transphobia. It makes posters look transphobic when they aren't. It makes threads look like they are full of deleted transphobic comments when they aren't.

There are plenty of nasty comments woth deleting. On other threads not just trans ones. Suggest dealing with those first.

AngryAttackKittens · 30/04/2018 20:48

I still can't get over that username. It's as goady as our friend PatriarchyPersonified, who's also permitted to be as unpleasant as he likes while women who're mildly snarky are having comments deleted.

AngryAttackKittens · 30/04/2018 20:51

And this, from Supermatch, is the goadiest thing I've ever seen on Mumsnet outside of AIBU.

"I'd like to examine this phrase please and discuss it openly? There is no such thing as transwomen - they are men. The Gender Recognition Act 2004 states: ... Is the statement in question not either braking the law, or encouraging people to do so? Does it also contravene the Equality Act? What do you think?"

CadyHeron · 30/04/2018 20:51

Oh come on, it's gone beyond yawn today so don't pretend that all the deletions are down to just yawn and bless.

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