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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Impact of Online Harassment/Trolling

161 replies

womanformallyknownaswoman · 28/04/2018 12:11

The impact of unrelenting trolling, whether sealioning/concern trolling/flaming discussions/ weaponising the mod reporting system, is a form of coercive control as it disrupts the free flow of women commenting and thinking. I think we do very well here to contain it. Sometimes it helps to educate others by dismantling/exposing the methods and motives of trolls. I get that. However it's a fine line between that and actually enabling harm when individuals are targeted/mobbed, whether directly on the board or by covert malicious reporting.

Verbal abuse is very harmful and many don't understand it and it's insidious effects in detail. Those who have experienced intimate partner and/or family violence in their history tend to have a lower harm threshold than those who don't.

As an illustration, I have altered the effects of verbal abuse in domestic situations to apply to an online environment:

• Your troll/stalker criticises you and makes you doubt yourself. You might start believing that you’re a not good poster or lucky to have a right to comment at all.
• You feel anxious and stressed in your troll’s presence. You worry about how your online harasser might react and this makes you change your behaviour (like agreeing with them more) to avoid arguments with them.
• You feel intimidated and scared of your online harasser when they get angry — their behaviour might be unpredictable or aggressive. It silences you and forces you to stop commenting.
• You’re made to feel guilty and not given the freedom to say the things you want to say. Your online stalker might control you by telling you what you can and can’t believe, say or think. They may also emotionally blackmail you.

I have described Verbal Abuse at length below in the final part of the post, for those who are interested. Patricia Evan’s book - The Verbally Abusive Relationship - is great. There’s chapter or two where she goes through each of the verbal abuse tactics, what it looks like and so on, plus gives rebuttals. If you’re in an intimate partnership I would go on to read Lundy Bancroft’s “Why Does He Do That?” (as TheBewilderness recommended somewhere else)- the bible for all women in relationships. Both authors have YouTubes and are quoted extensively online, so important are their contributions.

My question is do we need more containment e.g. a code word which, when used, means you are being forced to close down/leave? That you are feeling harmed? Do we need to highlight the trolls more where they are swamping a thread and refusing to go away. What about where modding is weaponised?

I still think better informed modding is the key but that is unlikely to occur soon. I tend to leave if feeling "got at" or the unrelenting gas lighting gets too much. There seems to be enough of us collectively to hold the trolls to account at present and we rely on people self caring by taking time out. Maybe everything is fine. I thought I would check by asking the question.

ABOUT VERBAL ABUSE
Verbal abuse creates emotional pain and mental anguish. It is a lie told to you or about you. Generally, verbal abuse defines people, telling them what they are, what they think, their motives, and so forth. ….Usually one person is blaming, accusing, even name calling, and the other is defending and explaining.

Most people targeted by verbal abuse try to explain to the abuser why what they’ve just heard is not true or not okay. They explain themselves because they believe the perpetrator is rational and can hear them and the relationship will then get better. Then they usually hear more verbal abuse, for instance, “You’re too sensitive.” At that point they don’t usually realize that they have just been defined, and, therefore, verbally abused again.

Since the target of verbal abuse is often blamed, ignored, or yelled at, she may have difficulty recognizing just what is going on in the relationship.

Verbal abuse includes withholding, bullying, defaming, defining, trivializing, harassing, diverting, interrogating, accusing, blaming, blocking, countering, lying, berating, taunting, put downs, abuse disguised as a joke, discounting, threatening, name-calling, yelling and raging.

FRANCE PASSES LAW ON PSYCHOLOGICAL VIOLENCE (couldn't find UK stats)
“...the main abuse helpline for women in France received 90,000 calls a year."Of these, 84% concern psychological violence,"..."We have introduced an important measure here, which recognises psychological violence, because it isn't just blows [that hurt] but also words," Nadine Morano, the minister for family affairs, told the lower house of parliament.”

Source: I prefer this old website of hers that has lots of content on it

OP posts:
Ineedacupofteadesperately · 30/04/2018 12:17

Thank you woman for all this useful information.

RunRabbitRunRabbit · 30/04/2018 12:30

All the time a troll is typing furiously on a thread here and hitting refresh he isn't doing anything else. I like it when they give long long rambling nonensical answers. Keeps them busy, awakens lurkers to their nonsense.

A bit like how my MIL would always invite in for tea and a chat the political canvassers for the people she didn't want to win the election (but without lurkers).

I wonder how many TRAs there actually are. When they swamped Millwall's phone lines we know that a few people made lots of calls from multiple phones using fake voices. I'm happy to keep them engaged over here if there are only a few.

lightthedarkness · 30/04/2018 14:03

Just bumping as a reminder of coercive control techniques - what we're up against.

Floisme · 30/04/2018 19:00

A bump from me too. I can't recommend this thread enough.

On the question of 'Taking back conTroll' ideas - this is partly inspired by another thread but I find that in real life, nothing gets rid of a male pest faster than a discussion about periods or menopause symptoms.

Although if this afternoon is anything to go by I suppose we might get reported for being exclusionary. Wink

boatyardblues · 30/04/2018 19:24

I like the recipe swaps because I'm a keen cook, but I'm also happy to have a poetry swap when a thread needs a bit of a lift. If we can promote the work of female poets, so much the better. Smile

LassWiADelicateAir · 30/04/2018 20:30

Personally I think the recipe swaps just look silly on the late night troll/spam threads which merit nothing more than being hidden or ignored.

Why do you even bother replying to them? Do you think the persons who create them have the slightest interest in taking your points on board?

This will no doubt elicit a recipe reply. If anyone has recipes which pre-date the use of granulated or caster sugar and use honey as a sweetener I'd be interested. How does one deal with the lack of bulk that sugar will give to a cake or batter mix?

Rufustheconstantreindeer · 30/04/2018 20:35

I'm easily led lass

Thats my excuse and I'm bloody sticking with it

HelenaDove · 30/04/2018 20:39

Danielle Muscato is currently trying to get Pilgrim Tucker kicked off Twitter.

Rufustheconstantreindeer · 30/04/2018 20:50

Who is pilgrim tucker?

Ereshkigal · 30/04/2018 20:56

She is a labour activist who has spoken at Woman's Place meetings.

Pratchet · 30/04/2018 20:56

Pilgrim is a Labour member who is a wpuk speaker. Danielle Moscato took a place in a woman's refuge and told women to suck his dick. Not a nice guy.

Ereshkigal · 30/04/2018 20:57

She was also stitched up a bit on that trans discussion on Victoria Derbyshire with Rebecca Root.

Rufustheconstantreindeer · 30/04/2018 20:58

Ahhh thank you both

I'll have a little google

Rufustheconstantreindeer · 30/04/2018 21:00

About a beard?

Fuck me you have to laugh or you'd cry

Ive got a better mustache than dh

I know a number of women who have to shave their beards...fucking PCOS

DJLippy · 30/04/2018 22:05

I recieved a week long ban from Twitter today for the following tweet

Yes queer. That's specific isn't it?

It was a sarcastic reply to someone who defined their sexuality as queer. Does anyone think this was justified? I am bisexual myself and I find people referring to themselves as 'queer' as offensive and vague. It doesn't necessarily refer to your sexuality, it can mean anything and I feel like it's a way for straight people to co-opt the gay and lesbian experience. Straight dudes getting a bisexual woman banned from twitter for homophobia seems absurd and abusive to me.

Earlier that day someone retweeted me and asked for her 110k followers

"myself and my publication @DIVAmagazine will do our upmost to stand up to transphobia -We will not be #Bystanders my work is about Inclusivity & building bridges"

After that my account was mobbed with angry pitchfork waving villager types. This person describes themselves as UK Labours lead diversity advisor but IMO that was an inducement to targeted harassment don't you think? Refusing to engage in discussion and labeling somebody as a transphobe is not being 'inclusive and building bridges' it's bullying.

Am I the jerk here?

Ereshkigal · 30/04/2018 22:18

That's crappy DJ Thanks

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 30/04/2018 22:29

I was banned on twitter today for 7 days for posting the words: 'Heresy! Burn the Witch'.

It was an ironic response to a TRA tweet about 'Terfdom'

Rufustheconstantreindeer · 30/04/2018 22:34

No you're not the jerk DJ

SophoclesTheFox · 30/04/2018 22:41

That's really crappy, DJ

I don't do twitter. It just seems such a bear pit.

I like this thread, though. I will bear it in mind.

thebewilderness · 01/05/2018 00:24

I am bisexual myself and I find people referring to themselves as 'queer' as offensive and vague.

It is the same as referring to someone as an LGBT person.
Queer is neither a sexuality nor a gender so it is meaningless except for being a slur used to this day against homosexuals. Heterosexuals reclaiming a slur used against homosexuals? Bullshit.
It is literally and I do mean literally impossible to be a LGBT person because no one can be all those things at once. Except a split personality person and then that would be the least of their problems.

Bowlofbabelfish · 01/05/2018 09:29

Am I the jerk here?

No.

Three hundred years ago this lot would have been burning witches. Eighty years ago they’d have been burning books.

I’m not on twitter either. It sounds exhausting.

It is bullying but it goes deeper than that. It’s a desperate attempt to block out any dissenting point of view or view that doesn’t accord with their view of the world.
It’s all linked to no platforming, reporting of academics etc.

Back in my day (the late Jurassic) debate was actual debate. You engaged with the people you disagreed with. You set out your stalls. You asked questions - that’s what you were doing. But this new breed, whilst thinking they’re twitter warriors a rurally cannot debate - they don’t have the skill, the rhetorical tools or the fact base to do so. They’ve been to university in a time where they wanted safe spaces and not to be upset by ideas. They no platformedbanyone they didn’t like.

And now they just mob anyone who disagrees with them. No debate, no nuance, no chance of changing minds by persuasion or fact or argument. Book burners basically.

AngryAttackKittens · 01/05/2018 09:43

How is it possible to be an LGBT person? What, all of them at once?

Ekphrasis · 01/05/2018 10:05

Sorry to hear this DJ.

The Impact of Online Harassment/Trolling
DJLippy · 01/05/2018 12:39

Thanks for the messages of support guys!

How is it possible to be an LGBT person? What, all of them at once?

One twin is Sarah Paulson the other one is a trans-masc non-binary gender fluid enbie. Every Tuesday she's a gay man but usually she's pansexual (which is bellend bisexual)

The Impact of Online Harassment/Trolling
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