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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Impact of Online Harassment/Trolling

161 replies

womanformallyknownaswoman · 28/04/2018 12:11

The impact of unrelenting trolling, whether sealioning/concern trolling/flaming discussions/ weaponising the mod reporting system, is a form of coercive control as it disrupts the free flow of women commenting and thinking. I think we do very well here to contain it. Sometimes it helps to educate others by dismantling/exposing the methods and motives of trolls. I get that. However it's a fine line between that and actually enabling harm when individuals are targeted/mobbed, whether directly on the board or by covert malicious reporting.

Verbal abuse is very harmful and many don't understand it and it's insidious effects in detail. Those who have experienced intimate partner and/or family violence in their history tend to have a lower harm threshold than those who don't.

As an illustration, I have altered the effects of verbal abuse in domestic situations to apply to an online environment:

• Your troll/stalker criticises you and makes you doubt yourself. You might start believing that you’re a not good poster or lucky to have a right to comment at all.
• You feel anxious and stressed in your troll’s presence. You worry about how your online harasser might react and this makes you change your behaviour (like agreeing with them more) to avoid arguments with them.
• You feel intimidated and scared of your online harasser when they get angry — their behaviour might be unpredictable or aggressive. It silences you and forces you to stop commenting.
• You’re made to feel guilty and not given the freedom to say the things you want to say. Your online stalker might control you by telling you what you can and can’t believe, say or think. They may also emotionally blackmail you.

I have described Verbal Abuse at length below in the final part of the post, for those who are interested. Patricia Evan’s book - The Verbally Abusive Relationship - is great. There’s chapter or two where she goes through each of the verbal abuse tactics, what it looks like and so on, plus gives rebuttals. If you’re in an intimate partnership I would go on to read Lundy Bancroft’s “Why Does He Do That?” (as TheBewilderness recommended somewhere else)- the bible for all women in relationships. Both authors have YouTubes and are quoted extensively online, so important are their contributions.

My question is do we need more containment e.g. a code word which, when used, means you are being forced to close down/leave? That you are feeling harmed? Do we need to highlight the trolls more where they are swamping a thread and refusing to go away. What about where modding is weaponised?

I still think better informed modding is the key but that is unlikely to occur soon. I tend to leave if feeling "got at" or the unrelenting gas lighting gets too much. There seems to be enough of us collectively to hold the trolls to account at present and we rely on people self caring by taking time out. Maybe everything is fine. I thought I would check by asking the question.

ABOUT VERBAL ABUSE
Verbal abuse creates emotional pain and mental anguish. It is a lie told to you or about you. Generally, verbal abuse defines people, telling them what they are, what they think, their motives, and so forth. ….Usually one person is blaming, accusing, even name calling, and the other is defending and explaining.

Most people targeted by verbal abuse try to explain to the abuser why what they’ve just heard is not true or not okay. They explain themselves because they believe the perpetrator is rational and can hear them and the relationship will then get better. Then they usually hear more verbal abuse, for instance, “You’re too sensitive.” At that point they don’t usually realize that they have just been defined, and, therefore, verbally abused again.

Since the target of verbal abuse is often blamed, ignored, or yelled at, she may have difficulty recognizing just what is going on in the relationship.

Verbal abuse includes withholding, bullying, defaming, defining, trivializing, harassing, diverting, interrogating, accusing, blaming, blocking, countering, lying, berating, taunting, put downs, abuse disguised as a joke, discounting, threatening, name-calling, yelling and raging.

FRANCE PASSES LAW ON PSYCHOLOGICAL VIOLENCE (couldn't find UK stats)
“...the main abuse helpline for women in France received 90,000 calls a year."Of these, 84% concern psychological violence,"..."We have introduced an important measure here, which recognises psychological violence, because it isn't just blows [that hurt] but also words," Nadine Morano, the minister for family affairs, told the lower house of parliament.”

Source: I prefer this old website of hers that has lots of content on it

OP posts:
Ekphrasis · 30/04/2018 10:10

There seemed to be a woman's hour piece or whole prog on trolling of women online at the moment.

Ekphrasis · 30/04/2018 10:11

"Take back conTROLL"

Floisme · 30/04/2018 10:12

I'm learning a lot from this thread and it's really making me think. However I disagree with the biscuit - I think it will just look as if we haven't got a good argument.

I only know about 5 recipes. I can talk about clothes though.

Ekphrasis · 30/04/2018 10:13

Cracking open my red raspberry leaf tea in anticipation of a vbac! Probably a bit late though.

#itaintgonnawork

Rufustheconstantreindeer · 30/04/2018 10:15

Oh i like the hashtag

Ekphrasis · 30/04/2018 10:23

"Woman's Hour has brought together four women who've been abused and trolled online and is following their journey to Take Back ConTROLL. We partnered up Charley Hough, Jackie Teale, Charlotte Proudman and Kelly McGurk with the advertising agency Mother and set them the challenge of helping our women reclaim their identity online.
These four women have been left feeling powerless after being shamed on the internet. Charley's half-brother shared ordinary photos from her social media accounts to an American porn website inviting users to leave obscene comments. Jackie tweeted Katie Hopkins and was the victim of a fake news twitterstorm that ended in legal action. Charlotte ended up leaving social media after she called out sexism in the legal profession. And Kelly's former partner shared naked images of her.
Today, Emma Barnett reveals their big idea to help tackle online abuse. Will their campaign galvanise a movement? It's a spectacle that brings together national treasures Charlotte Church, Miranda Hart and Andy Serkis. We find out from the celebrities involved why they wanted to speak out about online abuse. We discuss with Mother creatives Katie Mackay-Sinclair and Sophie Lloyd the workings behind their idea and get reaction to it. Also joining Emma, the Conservative peer Baroness Warsi and Isabelle Goldie, from the charity Mental Health Foundation, to discuss how policy changes could help deal with the issue.
Our four women will join Emma live throughout the programme and conclude as to whether this campaign has helped them Take Back ConTROLL."

They've created a satirical song about 'save our trolls'...

Ekphrasis · 30/04/2018 10:31

I do feel like I'm in an alternate universe listening to this song Confused

FermatsTheorem · 30/04/2018 10:45

Here's something I think might work. It's this: Don't ever name-check a troll.

Where someone is trolling by sea-lioning, or plopping, ignore, but ignore in an "active" way, i.e. scroll back up the thread to the last genuinely interesting comment and engage with that, making sure to name check that poster.

Where someone is trolling with factual inaccuracies/misrepresenting arguments in a way that you feel needs to be dealt with for the sake of the lurkers, do so but in a neutral way. Start the response with a third person account of the mistake: "It is sometimes mistakenly suggested that..." or "Some people wrongly use the straw man argument that..." Do not name check the troll.

That way, they are effectively ignored, the conversation moves on around them, they get frustrated by being made invisible (and possibly over-react to this, thus revealing them for the troll that they are).

Ekphrasis · 30/04/2018 10:46

That is a good idea ferm.

In case anyone wants to hear this. I feel woman's hour could have benefitted from reading the OP here though. twitter.com/bbcwomanshour/status/990886044160724992?s=21

Ereshkigal · 30/04/2018 10:48

Good suggestions Fermat.

Ekphrasis · 30/04/2018 10:49

www.saveourtrolls.org

Still trying to get my head around it.

AngryAttackKittens · 30/04/2018 10:53

Wait, is raspberry tea meant to do something pregnancy related? I just drink it because it tastes good, and is supposed to help minimize cramps.

Rufustheconstantreindeer · 30/04/2018 10:56

Yeah it brings on birth angry...apparently

Panic not...you have to be pregnant for it to work that way Smile

FermatsTheorem · 30/04/2018 10:58

AAK, my (knit-your-own-lentils) yoga teacher during pregnancy said it "conditioned the uterus" (whatever the fuck that means), and was contra-indicated in early pregnancy because it could induce a miscarriage, but was a good idea in late pregnancy because it encouraged braxton-hicks and got you ready for labour. I think it's a quite widely held belief, but whether it has any scientific basis I don't know. (It might do - a lot of herbal remedies do have strong effects - and quite genuine side effects and interactions with prescription drugs. Willow bark tea is effectively very weak aspirin, and St. John's Wort genuinely works as an antidepressant but has quite serious side effects and should always be checked against the prescription drugs you're taking.)

My personal feeling is I'd sooner drink ribena, cold. And rather not drink either!

Ekphrasis · 30/04/2018 10:59

Yeah I'm eat my dates and drinking the vile stuff. I'm not sure how I was supposed to measure 2 teaspoons; it looks like the autumn leaf pile we finally got rid of yesterday.

It might help periods but I'm not sure how.

FermatsTheorem · 30/04/2018 11:00

Penny Royal tea is meant to help with period cramps - and is also used as an abortifacient (not a very succesful one, AFAIK).

Ekphrasis · 30/04/2018 11:00

But ribeana is apparently not what it was due to a recipe change! I'm quite distraught and have probably missed out on the stock piling now.

AngryAttackKittens · 30/04/2018 11:01

I'd rather not condition my uterus for anything except rejecting sperm! Granted that's what the condoms are for. It does seem to help with cramps, but mine aren't bad anyway so your mileage may vary.

Maybe try mixing with mint tea, Ekphrasis? Except I think that's meant to have some impact on hormones too.

Rufustheconstantreindeer · 30/04/2018 11:05

Maybe try mixing with mint tea, Ekphrasis? Except I think that's meant to have some impact on hormones too

Really?

That might explain dh then, its virtually all he drinks.

(That and alcohol)

AngryAttackKittens · 30/04/2018 11:07

Not sure if this is you complimenting or insulting your DH...especially after the comment about him being crap at flirting earlier!

Rufustheconstantreindeer · 30/04/2018 11:17

It's probably insulting him again

It happens so often its hard to keep track

(He is lovely Grin)

KittyKlaws · 30/04/2018 11:21

Start the response with a third person account of the mistake: "It is sometimes mistakenly suggested that..." or "Some people wrongly use the straw man argument that..." Do not name check the troll.

I really like that approach.

ErrolTheDragon · 30/04/2018 11:24

Do not name check the troll.

Also this helps avert being accused of personal attack and the ability to RVO.

Bowlofbabelfish · 30/04/2018 11:28

Coercive control training for a few of the mods would be good. The pattern of posting is often far more informative than the content of a single post.

I don’t know how modding works (a few people over all the boards or a board or few each?) but mods concentrating on FWR board itself OR issues relating to it on other boards should receive that training.

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 30/04/2018 11:36

Look at this Prince amongst Men

He tweets lies about MN then blocks anyone who challenges him

twitter.com/MikeSegalov/status/990892502428332033