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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Impact of Online Harassment/Trolling

161 replies

womanformallyknownaswoman · 28/04/2018 12:11

The impact of unrelenting trolling, whether sealioning/concern trolling/flaming discussions/ weaponising the mod reporting system, is a form of coercive control as it disrupts the free flow of women commenting and thinking. I think we do very well here to contain it. Sometimes it helps to educate others by dismantling/exposing the methods and motives of trolls. I get that. However it's a fine line between that and actually enabling harm when individuals are targeted/mobbed, whether directly on the board or by covert malicious reporting.

Verbal abuse is very harmful and many don't understand it and it's insidious effects in detail. Those who have experienced intimate partner and/or family violence in their history tend to have a lower harm threshold than those who don't.

As an illustration, I have altered the effects of verbal abuse in domestic situations to apply to an online environment:

• Your troll/stalker criticises you and makes you doubt yourself. You might start believing that you’re a not good poster or lucky to have a right to comment at all.
• You feel anxious and stressed in your troll’s presence. You worry about how your online harasser might react and this makes you change your behaviour (like agreeing with them more) to avoid arguments with them.
• You feel intimidated and scared of your online harasser when they get angry — their behaviour might be unpredictable or aggressive. It silences you and forces you to stop commenting.
• You’re made to feel guilty and not given the freedom to say the things you want to say. Your online stalker might control you by telling you what you can and can’t believe, say or think. They may also emotionally blackmail you.

I have described Verbal Abuse at length below in the final part of the post, for those who are interested. Patricia Evan’s book - The Verbally Abusive Relationship - is great. There’s chapter or two where she goes through each of the verbal abuse tactics, what it looks like and so on, plus gives rebuttals. If you’re in an intimate partnership I would go on to read Lundy Bancroft’s “Why Does He Do That?” (as TheBewilderness recommended somewhere else)- the bible for all women in relationships. Both authors have YouTubes and are quoted extensively online, so important are their contributions.

My question is do we need more containment e.g. a code word which, when used, means you are being forced to close down/leave? That you are feeling harmed? Do we need to highlight the trolls more where they are swamping a thread and refusing to go away. What about where modding is weaponised?

I still think better informed modding is the key but that is unlikely to occur soon. I tend to leave if feeling "got at" or the unrelenting gas lighting gets too much. There seems to be enough of us collectively to hold the trolls to account at present and we rely on people self caring by taking time out. Maybe everything is fine. I thought I would check by asking the question.

ABOUT VERBAL ABUSE
Verbal abuse creates emotional pain and mental anguish. It is a lie told to you or about you. Generally, verbal abuse defines people, telling them what they are, what they think, their motives, and so forth. ….Usually one person is blaming, accusing, even name calling, and the other is defending and explaining.

Most people targeted by verbal abuse try to explain to the abuser why what they’ve just heard is not true or not okay. They explain themselves because they believe the perpetrator is rational and can hear them and the relationship will then get better. Then they usually hear more verbal abuse, for instance, “You’re too sensitive.” At that point they don’t usually realize that they have just been defined, and, therefore, verbally abused again.

Since the target of verbal abuse is often blamed, ignored, or yelled at, she may have difficulty recognizing just what is going on in the relationship.

Verbal abuse includes withholding, bullying, defaming, defining, trivializing, harassing, diverting, interrogating, accusing, blaming, blocking, countering, lying, berating, taunting, put downs, abuse disguised as a joke, discounting, threatening, name-calling, yelling and raging.

FRANCE PASSES LAW ON PSYCHOLOGICAL VIOLENCE (couldn't find UK stats)
“...the main abuse helpline for women in France received 90,000 calls a year."Of these, 84% concern psychological violence,"..."We have introduced an important measure here, which recognises psychological violence, because it isn't just blows [that hurt] but also words," Nadine Morano, the minister for family affairs, told the lower house of parliament.”

Source: I prefer this old website of hers that has lots of content on it

OP posts:
leggere · 11/05/2018 07:59

Interesting though, how last week I was "recipe"ied for holding a "different" view, last couple of days posters have been inclusive of me and conversed normally. Today, looking a bit questionable again? Bit confusing really.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 11/05/2018 08:08

It time-limits the possibility of derail.

Yes I think that's important - as is limiting where the derailers can post.

The problem is the tedious sealioning and derailing is not benign as the post outlines. Most who are reasonable don't belabour a point to death, nor post about issues on threads unrelated to the issue, as is happening with greater frequency I observe.

Someone who continually undermines by good cop / bad cop tactics really needs to sent on their way as they are not genuine and it's a coercive control tactic.

OP posts:
leggere · 11/05/2018 08:19

Thankyou both for your explanations, I think they were aimed at myself? Let's see what today brings.

FermatsTheorem · 11/05/2018 08:34

Now, actually Leggere (and this one is aimed at you, in contrast to the more general posts above), saying "this is aimed at me", and saying it (as you have) twice in close succession in connection with a general discussion, that is a form of derailing (often called "me-railing").

Yes, your initial comment about being "recipe-ed" prompted me to make the observation I did, but I intended (cf my comments about what one intends not always being how a post is read by others) to use your comment as a prompt to address the issue more generally. You then said "is that aimed at me?" I explained that it was meant more generally, and gave an example of where I myself might have found myself in the situation you described - of being accused of trolling (or having it implied, via lemon drizzle cake, that one was trolling) - even when I didn't. Then womanformerly picked up on my general comment and made another general comment, and again you said "is that aimed at me?" When that gets done repeatedly, people start to get a bit irritated.

FermatsTheorem · 11/05/2018 08:36

Sorry, that comes across as snippy when you're already on the defensive. I think though, it's illustrative of one of the problems of online discussion and not being able to read "tone". It becomes much harder to distinguish who's saying what to whom (and how many "whom"s - the specific poster or the general audience).

womanformallyknownaswoman · 11/05/2018 08:42

You've posted a great couple of general examples Fermats

Leggere If you have an issue with the board and its reception of you, it would seem sensible to post a thread about it and clear it up - ime.

OP posts:
leggere · 11/05/2018 08:45

Fermats, I asked if it was aimed at me simply because I wasn't sure and I didn't want to sound big headed, assuming people were talking to me. That's all, nothing deeper.

leggere · 11/05/2018 09:00

woman, thanks but don't think I have the mental strength today to open a thread. Maybe I'll just watch and join in a little bit.

FermatsTheorem · 11/05/2018 09:08

I think one thing we maybe can agree on is that sometimes communicating online is a nightmare, because you can't read tone, and you can't (generic you, at any rate I certainly can't) always distinguish genuine comments/questions from goady-fuckery from passive-aggressive retorts from... The possibilities are endless.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 11/05/2018 09:23

If I'm feeling sensitive I tend not to respond nor even go online as I can take too many things to heart - you do need a tough skin on most open forums unfortunately - even those well modded.

sounds you are self caring Leggere so good luck with that

OP posts:
MadBadDaddy · 11/05/2018 20:43

How does one deal with 'Trolls' (as you would see them) who repeatedly suggest (or demand) that Feminists and Trans-ists need to collaborate more openly when "needs must", and that the most suitable place for it is here?

Are calls for clemency just thrown into the bin with everything else? I disagree, but I don't especially want to start dealing with it here & now This page was linked to as part of a 'trans issues primer' but I couldn't find any discussion that dealt with this specifically.

(PS if you charged an entry fee to lurk on a Recipe Thread, I'd pay it.)

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