Trans unpeak.

[Regularhuey]

After reaching peak trans I have followed a few well known Radical Feminist groups on SM to learn more.

Sadly I have come across actual genuine transphobia in GC groups which I thought was just propaganda put out by TRAs.

Because I only ever hung around in naice intellectual spaces such as here, I thought they would all be a bit like MN feminist chat.

One summary of a conversation went along the lines of

Group post
"There's a Transwoman fitting bras at a London branch of M&S" Shock face.

Replies include "oh no (angry face) I'm never taking my daughter there"

Me:
"Men can work as a bra fitter. We should be able to ask staff for a female fitter if we want one"

Cue loads of hypothetical scenarios that we don't know will ever happen and predictable posts about AGP and boycotting M&S.

Anyway this is just one example of many I've come across recently.

I just suppose, as GC feminists perhaps we should be doing more to call out transphobia when we do see it because it seems lots of people are using GC feminism to express their hostility to Transpeople.

Not smashed

I am gonna have to give the screen a jolly good clean

What's a nork?
Though somehow ( listening to the alphabet listed above ) I have a feeling that this test is just not going to work for me

I've got some tank tops with a shelf bra in them to sleep in when someone other than DH who I don't want to run into in naked during a late night trip to the toilet might be around, and based on that, don't you get sweaty in the crop tops? It's the only time I get underboob sweat, wearing those tank tops.

Right off to bed

Goodnight all

My crop bras wick sweat away from the skin...which means sweaty clothes

I'm being too confessional here tonight. #awkward

Okay, well I was almost literally dead Rufus

(geez you are all speedy typers, and/or crap I am super slow!)

OP is probably wishing they'd never posted now, with all this talk about icky disgusting totally irrelevant to everything bodies.

I'm slow to....but my excuse is I'm on my phone.

AngryAttack I'm always freezing, so rarely sweat. I love love love being warm, so I'll trade anyone for a warm sweaty bod.

In my opinion if you ask for a female fitter you should get a female not a Transwoman.
But transwomen should be allowed to work as fitters and shops not be boycotted when they are.

How do you see this working OP?

Would everyone who deals with bookings have to know which members of staff are transxand which are not? I don't see that really working under the current law which has strict rules against outing trans employees, including to members of staff.

What happens if someone books an appointment but hasn't thought to specify that they wanted a woman to do it, because they thought all the staff would be women, and then they find that they are being seen by someone who they think is a transwoman? Should they ask the employee if they are trans and probably make the employee feel bad? Should they ask for another employee but refuse to specify the reason? They can't ask another employee to discreetly confirm whether the bra fitter is trans or not (see above re outing).

I just think it's a bit more complicated than you are suggesting and don't see how your position will work in practice.

By the way, I personally would have no problem being fitted for a bra by a transwoman, but I can understand that other women might not want this and I respect that.

Are you the same person who keeps posting 'trans unpeak' threads?

Yeah, I wouldn't bother. Once you've peaked there's no going back

Hope springs eternal, and other cliched shit like that.

Ha ha 'unpeak'. Another made up gender. I agree. No one 'unpeaks' it's one way traffic.

Op do you understand that your view that you should be able to choose a female born women over a trans woman is in itself transphobic according to TAs.

That's the whole bloody point of the debate!!

Oh gosh M&S bras are the worst whether someone faffs around you with a tape measure or not. Everyone should boycott M&S's bras (but not their super comfy pants).

Misses point, etc.

Yup m&s pants all the way.

OP, I disagree that women discussing the ways in which their privacy and dignity, as well as their safety, are compromised by males is in any way transphobic.

How could a male not realise that most women would not want him as a bra fitter? Why would he choose to do that unless to encroach on women's boundaries? The very fact that that person has chosen to become a bra fitter tells me to keep myself and my daughter as far away as possible. Just NO. I don't give the smallest fuck who thinks that's transphobic.

I agree totally with you Team

And the poster who asked, why are TRAs rarely exhorted to call out misogyny but GC feminists are regarding 'transphobia'... why might that that be do you think?

I hate the word 'transphobia' tbh. I do not have a phobia of transpeople, I just don't believe that a transwoman is a woman or a transman is a man. Sorry [not sorry].

So someone doesn’t want a man fitting a teenage girl’s bra and now all feminists are evil and we should stop talking about women’s rights?

Have I got that straight?

Pretty much! It's "I was all for women's rights until I tried to tell you nasty women how to do feminism and you weren't appreciative enough", the new and updated version.

Women: know your place

If I were to go for a bra fitting (which tbh I wouldn't), then I would want a female to do it...and preferably an older, more experienced female.

Men don't wear bras, therefore they cannot experience the issues that come from wearing them.

Transwomen may well wear bras, but their breasts will be the result of surgery, not biology. Their experience will not be the same as most/many women's bra needing and wearing experience.

It is not transphobic (or even sexist) for a female to want a female bra fitter.

I think OP you are misunderstanding (deliberately) the point here:

Women have the right to say no to ANYONE they don’t want in an intimate care/service setting. Anyone. When I was assigned my midwife it was made very clear to me that if we didn’t click for any reason at all I could swap.
If I get a woman I don’t want touching my breasts I can say no.
If I get a trans woman I can say no.
If I get a man I can say no

Because it’s my body, my bra fitting and my custom. I can say no to anyone.

To be forced out of that, to be forced to accept someone I don’t want touching me and looking at me in a changing cubicle is a gross violation of my boundaries.

Now: ask yourself why TRAs are so keen to push these boundaries? Why would a man want to do teen girls bra fittings? Why would a man want access to domestic violence survivors? Is it because they have a passion for well fitting bras or isnit to push women’s boundaries?

Pushing has several outcomes. It can be paraphilic behaviour on the part of the instigator. It can be a power dynamic. Or it can be a sort of test case to create situations so that people can post on social media -‘oh you transphobic feminists! We are so oppressed ! ‘

Expect more of this. DV shelters, bra fitters, smear tests, many intimate situations where women should be able to say no to anyone but will be railroaded into saying yes.

Because that’s really the drive here is t it? To break down women’s ability to say no.

And frankly, fuck that. We’ve fought long and hard for the right to say no to men. I will give that up over my cold dead body.

perhaps we should be doing more to call out transphobia when we do see it

Nah you're alright. I'll stick to calling out NatalWomanphobia thanks.