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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Trans unpeak.

353 replies

Regularhuey · 20/04/2018 20:42

After reaching peak trans I have followed a few well known Radical Feminist groups on SM to learn more.

Sadly I have come across actual genuine transphobia in GC groups which I thought was just propaganda put out by TRAs.

Because I only ever hung around in naice intellectual spaces such as here, I thought they would all be a bit like MN feminist chat.

One summary of a conversation went along the lines of

Group post
"There's a Transwoman fitting bras at a London branch of M&S" Shock face.

Replies include "oh no (angry face) I'm never taking my daughter there"

Me:
"Men can work as a bra fitter. We should be able to ask staff for a female fitter if we want one"

Cue loads of hypothetical scenarios that we don't know will ever happen and predictable posts about AGP and boycotting M&S.

Anyway this is just one example of many I've come across recently.

I just suppose, as GC feminists perhaps we should be doing more to call out transphobia when we do see it because it seems lots of people are using GC feminism to express their hostility to Transpeople.

OP posts:
AngryAttackKittens · 20/04/2018 21:10

In case it might be of use to anyone...

www.reddit.com/r/ABraThatFits/

Ginger1982 · 20/04/2018 21:11

Goady post.

Problematique · 20/04/2018 21:11

This is shocking.

People still go to m&s for bra fittings?

Reddit r/abrathatfits

Problematique · 20/04/2018 21:11

Xpost kittens Grin

Greymisty · 20/04/2018 21:12

Not to be a stereotypical feminist or anything but I don't actually wear a bra these days....i change cup size to often (vary from E to G) so i just wear those stretch crop top things mostly.

But the last M&S bras I brought last year were rubbish, elastic went after a few weeks I was in the tightest books. Very disappointed.

Ellenripleysalienbaby · 20/04/2018 21:12

Leaving aside the fact that M and S bra fitting is totally shite:

I would question the motives of any male, whether it be a man or a TIM, who, out of all the jobs out there, wanted to be a bra fitter. I would not want any sort of male fitting me for a bra. And I'm sure that most decent men and transwomen understand that perfectly well and would not want to make women uncomfortable by insisting that they want to do that job.

I don't think that's a particularly controversial opinion is it?

Greymisty · 20/04/2018 21:13

Hooks* even!

SpareRibFem · 20/04/2018 21:13

@RegularHuey go reread that thread and understand there is a discussion that is mostly about fear, women's fear and please stop trolling, you are here to either provoke something that you can call transphobic and screenshot or you want to scare us off this site so we have nowhere to discuss issues that concern us.

ArcheryAnnie · 20/04/2018 21:14

Spot on, CircleSquare.

I don't know what the point of the OP's post is. We're not a hivemind. We don't - unlike TRAs - enforce groupthink. We don't have some kind of membership card. We are free to disagree with each other, and in fact I think healthy disagreement makes the chances of us all finding a better outcome more likely.

So by all means discuss if you think it's fine for men to fit bras. Other women are free to point out that female socialisation would make it difficult for some women to object. Then we can have a discussion.

But to then cry transphobia and make out like hostility to trans people is a GC thing is disingenous, IMO. Lots of people ARE hostile to trans-identified people - and lesbians, and gay people, and feminists, and indeed anyone they perceive as gender nonconforming - but those hostile people are not, on the whole, GC feminists. GC feminists are generally the ones on the receiving end of hostility, not the ones dishing it out.

I also note how often we get exhorted to "call out transphobia" by people who I have never noticed exhorting TRAs to "call out misogyny", when you don't have to join any seekrit groups to notice the tide of misogyny coming from plenty of TRAs. I wonder why that is?

sallyannemum · 20/04/2018 21:14

The best way to measure is by putting boob in measure cup.
A Cup is they fit in an Egg cup.
B cup is they fit in a Tea Cup.
C Cup they fit in a pudding bowl
D cup they fit in a small mixing bowl
E cup they fit on Large Mixing Bowl
F cup you dont need a bra you need scaffolding.
Quite simple stay at home and measure your own

Beyond11cisRetinol · 20/04/2018 21:16

(Not imporant, but surely "trough" is the word you are looking for, opposite of peak?)

thebewilderness · 20/04/2018 21:18

I though everyone knew that Feminists don't wear bras. We burned them all back in the seventies.

LangCleg · 20/04/2018 21:19

I don't want non-women fitting my bras. I wonder why non-women would want a job fitting bras.

stitchglitched · 20/04/2018 21:19

Any man who chooses to be a bra fitter is a sleazy creep who doesn't give a shit about women's comfort or boundaries. What does that have to do with transphobia?

nauticant · 20/04/2018 21:20

This style of thread seems all the rage these days.

To borrow from the kind of logic that TRAs are so fond of:

I used to support rights for gay people but then I met a gay man who was an arse so now I don't.

I used to be against racism but then I met a black person who was an arse so now I am not.

ArcheryAnnie · 20/04/2018 21:21

(On the point of bra-fitting: although most of my clothes are cheap, and I wear them for years until they fall apart - I have close to zero interest in clothes beyond covering myself up and being reasonably comfortable - I do spend money on R&P bras, which are eyewateringly expensive. You are fitted by a woman coming in and looking at you with your top off, and they find an almost miraculous fit! I don't know how they do it, as they neither measure nor touch you, but they are geniuses. And no, I wouldn't want a man fitting me for a bra this way.)

busyboysmum · 20/04/2018 21:24

Yeah. Who in their right mind would employ a male bra fitter? I would never want a man if I had the choice. TBH I would leave rather than be measured for a bra by a man.

RunRabbitRunRabbit · 20/04/2018 21:26

Real transphobia exists. Real misogyny exists. Real homophobia exists. Real misandry exists. Real racism exists. Real sexism exists. Real anti-semitism exists. That doesn't mean it is wrong to discuss those topics.

There are plenty of nasty fucks out there in the world who will take any opportunity to stick the knife into someone else for whatever reason they can find. I avoid them.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 20/04/2018 21:26

Weren't we doing 'I have un-peaked (and you can too!)' about a month ago?

What annoys me is how stupid you obviously think we are. Hmm

MIdgebabe · 20/04/2018 21:31

I am not totally aghast at the principle of a trans bra fitter, provided, and this is a big but, it was totally acceptable to ask for someone else.

Unfortunately if the cries of transphobia stick, it will not be possible to ask for someone else.

I do think we should highlight misogyny . A fully biologically male person ( not all trans people therefore) expecting to work as a bra fitter is as a minimum disrespectful. It is misogyny.

Highlight the bad behaviour rather than modify your behaviour

PencilsInSpace · 20/04/2018 21:40

Nobody wants male bra fitters.

Original poster
Regularhuey · 20/04/2018 21:41

Today 20:55 ShowOfHands

I'd link it but does the op want to protect her rl name?

Small world!

Yes please don't link to the conversation. It does contain my real name and it'd be quite obvious which poster I was.

OP posts:
maxthemartian · 20/04/2018 21:41

You think that is "actual genuine transphobia"? Grin

maxthemartian · 20/04/2018 21:42

Oh and I saw the actual discussion as well today.

Original poster
Regularhuey · 20/04/2018 21:42

I thought the other thread on here was about males in female changing rooms.

OP posts: