Trans unpeak.

[Regularhuey]

After reaching peak trans I have followed a few well known Radical Feminist groups on SM to learn more.

Sadly I have come across actual genuine transphobia in GC groups which I thought was just propaganda put out by TRAs.

Because I only ever hung around in naice intellectual spaces such as here, I thought they would all be a bit like MN feminist chat.

One summary of a conversation went along the lines of

Group post
"There's a Transwoman fitting bras at a London branch of M&S" Shock face.

Replies include "oh no (angry face) I'm never taking my daughter there"

Me:
"Men can work as a bra fitter. We should be able to ask staff for a female fitter if we want one"

Cue loads of hypothetical scenarios that we don't know will ever happen and predictable posts about AGP and boycotting M&S.

Anyway this is just one example of many I've come across recently.

I just suppose, as GC feminists perhaps we should be doing more to call out transphobia when we do see it because it seems lots of people are using GC feminism to express their hostility to Transpeople.

Regularhuey

I am not sure that being shocked by the idea of a tranwomen fitting a bra is hostile or transphobic. We are talking about an activity that involves our sexed bodies here and so I understand the concerns. If someone was shocked or objecting to a transwomen serving, at the till, someone buying a bra, I would agree with your sentiments.

Continue to think and make up your own mind about what you think is and isn't transphobic and hostile.

The posts on this board demonstrate that people vary on what they think constitutes transphobia and what doesn't, what they think violates the rights of females and what doesn't, where they think demands from TRAs impact on females and where they think they are inconsequential.
Where gender critical people, on these boards anyway, usually find consensus is about the fact that we think it is good to talk and reflect upon issues and scenarios.

I think the purpose of your post was to encourage people to call out transphobia when we do see it because it seems lots of people are using GC feminism to express their hostility to Transpeople. I think you should rest assured knowing that people on this board do call out transphobia when they perceive it and do challenge hostility when they perceive it. What you don't seem to acknowledge is what is perceived as hostility and transphobia by you, may be viewed as a reasoned perspective by others.

Another repeak moment is people starting a thread, tossing a bunch of shit at the wall to see what sticks, and never addressing any points made.

Yes.

yeah, turns out I'm a 34GG and was wearing a 36E. The bra intervention is just one of the ways Mumsnet has changed my life.

I'm still interested in the answer to my question. If I don't want my bra fitted by a man (and let's be clear, transwomen are men), am I a transphobe?

Is the bra intervention where you measure your back standing straight and then bend forwards to measure your cup size?

@Regularhuey have you ever exhorted trans rights activists to "call out misogyny" when you see the many, many threats made against gender-critical women? Can you link to some of these instances?

OP, you want to check if what you are seeing is 'transphobia'? Replace 'trans woman' with 'man' and see if you think it's something a woman shouldn't be allowed to say.

Me:
"Men can work as a bra fitter. We should be able to ask staff for a female fitter if we want one
I don’t disagree but you don’t get to ask that question if it is a trans woman fitting you, without being condemned as transphobic.

The issue is that we aren’t being given a choice - we are being told to accept.

Disclaimer: I haven’t been in M&S and dong know what their exact policy is but that seems to be the general attitude with regard women’s short lists and women’s sports

A well fitting bra makes everyday life so much easier!

In terms of boundaries it really doesn't make sense to get the general "this is what we expect to happen" at the point where it's already well past the boundaries of the majority of women. Some women may be fine with men fitting them for bras. Most seem not to be. I'm not seeing why the majority should yield to the minority here.

Bold fail

I think what you are proposing is a hierarchy of rights.

You say that the trans person has the right to do a job she wants, but no one else has a right to not be her client?

That's weird logic.

and yes BeUpStanding, that's the one.

replacing all my bras is just one of the many ways that Mumsnet has succeeded in parting me with my disposable income.

what do you mean by "unpeak", then? Do you mean "I have come across imaginary mean gender-critical feminists"? Or do you mean "I no longer believe that women and girls are allowed to have privacy, safety and dignity by keeping sex-segregated spaces"?

Neither.
It's more like I followed the usual peak trans trajectory, but am now worried that GC feminism can actually be a cover for transphobia and am navigating my way through this balancing act.

Op are you saying we should be able to specifically state we want a female bra fitter, and get a female bra fitter, not a transwoman?

I'm still interested in the answer to my question. If I don't want my bra fitted by a man (and let's be clear, transwomen are men), am I a transphobe?

In my opinion if you ask for a female fitter you should get a female not a Transwoman.
But transwomen should be allowed to work as fitters and shops not be boycotted when they are.

I don't actually believe that you have. Your views are in no way compatible with someone who has peak transed, and your examples of supposed transphobia are nothing of the sort.

I’m going to say it.

I’ll probably be deleted for hate speech but I’m going there.

I hated the bra intervention, it said my back size is smaller but I prefer wearing a looser bra around the back because I can’t stand bras digging in.

Go on delete me.

No man is touching my breasts if he is bepenised or pinverted, they are mine and I have the final say over who touches them. That is NOT transphobic it is me exercising my autonomy over my body. HOWEVER, if self ID goes ahead I may be accused of transphobia if I refuse to allow said bepenised or pinverted man measure me should I find myself in a store where the fitter is male. I lose the autonomy over my own body unless I make discrete enquiries that only a biological woman does the measuring.

I'll burn my bras (again) before I allow that!

I do smile at the purported gift that GC women should be perfectly free to be transphobes (or alternatively to do what they're told and not be transphobes). It is rising quite nicely in the TRA Top 20 gaslighting tricks.

Well, then, Regularhuey, if you see something you disagree with, then just disagree with it and explain why. That's the point of discussion, and that's why so many of us oppose the TRA tactic of #nodebate. Just crying "transphobia!" won't change anyone's minds about anything.

Still think the whole premise of the OP is kinda BSish.

What position have you run into in GC circles that caused you to depeak, that you never saw on intellectual Mumsnet? And why then would you seem to disagree with so many people on this board?

It’s as if something doesn’t right true. I can’t put my finger on it!

Teacuphiccup. You can't say things like that! When they go low we go high!

RegularHuey, people are not boycotting because transwomen are employed as bra fitters. They are boycotting because they are being told if you request a woman you'll either get a woman or a male who identifies as a woman. It's the refusal to allow us to set boundaries which leads to boycotts.

Coco de Mer in Covent Garden

Just like Marks and Sparks. Identical clientele