All the Mumsnet hate on Twitter. Have we friendzoned India's penetration?

[RefuseToDenounceBiology]

It seems that India is a little obsessed and is even now actively encouraging brands to stop advertising with Mumsnet.
A picture of a 17 year old with a semi in a skirt will stop a baby formula brand wanting to be associated apparently twitter.com/IndiaWilloughby/status/987348210858577921?s=20

I don't think it matters where that Gif of Lila Perry was taken, or what Lila's "famous" for; if it were an 18 year old with female anatomy, would any of us think it was okay to be assessing her erect nipples or damp crotch to evidence... what exactly? I don't know. But I'm pretty sure in 99.999% of scenarios imaginable we would not think that was okay. We would think it was abhorrent, as a pp remarks. Male anatomy is not fair game just because it's male. That's not my feminism, not least as the mother of a son.

@disturbinglyorangescrambledegg yes I read the news, I work in an industry that allows me to see how fear can be be stoked by disproportionate news coverage that often doesn’t reflect real life risk. No I haven’t been flashed. I have I have been sexually harrassed in a way that had long term emotional consequences for me and i’ve been followed, heckled and made to feel unsafe in public spaces my whole life. None of the men who behaved in those ways towards me were trans. Toxic, aggressive traditional masculinity feels like a more of a threat to me and although I can see there are instances of trans people who have behaved in aggressive and threatening ways I don’t believe that this is a constant meaningful threat to most women to the point that explains every 3rd discussion in the feminism boards being dedicated to it. Have you or anyone you know been personally attacked or harrassed by someone who is trans? Has anyone on this thread?

@Ratrolypoly thank you for articulating this better than I did. I have sons too and I have teenage boys in my family who I love very much. If an adult used photos of their genitals to make a point I’d be devastated and furious

I think the difference here is that some of us are looking at this person and seeing him as a child, one of our sons, vulnerable etc.

Others of us are looking at him and seeing a sex offender who has committed his crimes against a large number of young women.

I'm looking at a person with a freely swinging, semi erect penis demanding to share a changing room with females and calling them bigots for refusing
I saw this on the news and was horrified

AsAProfessionalPenis nails it.

Don't want your semi all over the internet? Don't demand access to the girl's changing rooms.

That's just disingeneous crap Rat. Lila Perry had his dick out, no underwear, under a short skirt, in a school.

Children should not have to be exposed to that. And telling people who object is to it that they are perverts for noticing it is serious fucking gaslighting.

I have sons too. If they wanted to wear a skirt I would still TELL THEM TO PUT FUCKING PANTS ON.

And for the record, I wouldn't let my daughters go commando either

He was offered separate facilities which he declined then he was offered a curtained off area in the girls changing room which he also declined

Flipping heck. Adopting Lila Perry as your poster girl is not a smart move by TRAs. I feel another peak coming on.

No I haven’t been flashed.

I find this astonishing.

I have been flashed so many times since I was about 6 years old that I soon learned to not 'look down' because I recognise the rest of the body language and behaviour that tells me there'll be a naked dick down there. A lot of the flashers i've seen are actually teenagers too - I think deviants tend to start young.

I know there is nothing specific I do that would lead to me being repreatedly victimised by flashers, apart from walk off the beaten track a bit when i want a bit of space with my own thoughts and that is where these fuckers hang out and wait. It pisses me off that the behaviour of perverted men restricts my freedom like this.

Now these pervs are being given license by transgenderism to openly, extremely publicly make non-consenting people aware of their genitals, and being called 'brave' for it. So messed up.

Unfortunately due to the fast moving nature of social media, the context of posting this picture becomes lost... also worth considering how the use of this picture was used to crate the narrative of 'terfs show children's genitalia' and the consequences and implications of this.

@theyoniwayisnorthwards

This is the only way light can be shone on this issue. We are constantly told to shut up and accept female means male and female in the human species and that there will be NO ADVERSE CONSEQUENCES of that ever. So yes it's distasteful, the reality of it is distasteful. If you don't think feminists should discuss it you can stay out of the discussion. Or write to your MP and tell them its not something people should talk about too much, or you can recommend a law where only people who have direct experience of something can talk about something. That's pretty much where we are now. Not working for many.

I have never been flashed. I'm trying not to take it personally.

I am very unobservant so it's possible that people have been frantically flashing me for years and I just haven't noticed.

"I don't think it matters where that Gif of Lila Perry was taken, or what Lila's "famous" for; if it were an 18 year old with female anatomy, would any of us think it was okay to be assessing her erect nipples or damp crotch to evidence..."

Are you actually serious? I mean really?

To the extent to which an 18-year-old female might have 'erect nipples' or a wet crotch, she is likely to be the recipient of unwanted male attention in consequence.

I mean the scenario where a female has a publicly visible wet crotch
is really only because she's menstruating, and for you to equate that with an erect penis is quite offensive. And protruding nipples are an OBJECT of male attention, they are not EVER a perpetrator of sexual assault in the way that an 18-year-old boy exposing his erect penis would be.

The sexually aggressive act of indecent exposure is about the deliberate exposure of a penis. It has bugger all to do with erect nipples or wet crotches!

Hey, hey, I'm not defending anything else about Lila Perry except that I don't think it's okay to publicly critique their genitals. Let's stick on point here.

And actually Assigned, I distinctly remember my mum begging me to put a bra on because I looked "explicit", but I did not care. And I'm sure a lot of mothers tutted at me in shopping centres. What would I do if, in our gender-un-stereotyped future my son wore a skirt? I might well tell him to put some pants on. He might well tell me to do one, if he's anything like I was!

My brazen sexuality didn't make me a sex offender though, did it? I mean I cringe looking back at how inappropriate I was, but such is youth. What does that Gif of Lila prove? That they're a brazen youth perhaps, but not that they're a sex offender, and nothing such that it warrants our scrutiny.

I am very unobservant so it's possible that people have been frantically flashing me for years and I just haven't noticed.

I bet that's the case and when some weird bloke whistles or says "psst have you got the time?" you either cheerfully tell them the time or ignore them with no idea they have their cock out and want you to see it.

I mean the scenario where a female has a publicly visible wet crotch
is really only because she's menstruating

...is it just me then?

Look, as unacceptable as one might find it, I don't think a clothed penis is ever indecent exposure.

On another subject, I don't know that I've every been flashed either, not such that I remember.

But Rat, don't you think Lila's erect penis is absolutely the central issue here and completely apposite and relevant?

The girls were saying they didn't want to expose themselves to him, and him to them, and what does he do but turn up for a TV interview with a hard-on and no underwear.

Your mother's point about putting a bra on was that she didn't want men looking at you in a sexualised way - and they would have done. A slight hint of nipple or breast and they will be sexualising a young child. This is NOT an equal relationship, anywhere on the planet. Females across the globe cover themselves up as a defence against male sexual aggression, while men face no such issue whatsoever from women.

also worth considering how the use of this picture was used to crate the narrative of 'terfs show children's genitalia' and the consequences and implications of this.

A narrative from a set of political lobbyists that encourages girls to bind, boys to take hormones to grow breasts, and which has a poster child with their own TV show where said person's sex drive and lack of penis material available for surgically altering into a neovagina is openly discussed on camera.

Lobbyists that push for boys in girls changing rooms and guide camps, and which gives accolades to a woman who took her son abroad to have 'sex change' surgery that would have been illegal here when he had just turned 16.

They have the nerve to say that us noticing a penis when it's shoved in front of us is child abuse but they do all of this and more.

"I don't think a clothed penis is ever indecent exposure"

The indecent exposure is what he did in the locker room.

Grooming is very effective isn't it.

when some weird bloke whistles or says "psst have you got the time?" you either cheerfully tell them the time or ignore them with no idea they have their cock out and want you to see it.