Ooh step back, India Willoughby is going to penetrate the Mumsnet debate

[ALittleBitOfButter]

Just saw on twitter that IW says will do radio interview about Mumsnet. Sorry can't link as on phone.

I think some of it is probably the zeal of the converted for India -'I've found this new huge thing in my life and everyone else should believe it too!'

But surely if India just wanted to go and get on with life, that would be an option - no need to demand the spotlight in order to fume at people you don't know.

Oh and India, I don't drink coffee.

My preference is a cup of tea. Builder's brew style.

BMJ thread with link to article
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3207071-Gender-reassignment-opinion-piece-in-this-weeks-BMJ

I don't think the issue here is even one of teenage boys being sexual predators.

Most teenagers, boys and girls are sexually curious, for some boys and to a lesser extent girls this might lead to lack of respect for the boundaries of others and in extreme cases sexual assault or rape.

I feel the main issue with situations where an organisation is in loco parentis is ensuring that they don't deliberately or naively create an environment where there is a risk of teenage pregnancy or a risk of opposite sex experimentation (which could lead to some predatory behaviour).

Of course all these things apart from pregnancy could feasibly occur with same sex groupings (boys or girls) but the reason safeguarding focuses on separating by biological sex is because of reproduction and because once in puberty most boys have a physical advantage over girls.

Has Justine peaked?

JHB is going to check us out and report back tomorrow!

The majority of sexual exploitation within gangs is committed by teenage boys and men in their twenties (Berelowitz et al, 2012).

www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/child-abuse-and-neglect/child-sexual-exploitation/

Thanks Oldcrone

That was wonderfully bad by IW.

Thanks again Justine

elendon
That poor girl. 14 years old.

And according to the NSPCC around a third of sexual abuse (presumably against minors) is committed by other children and young people.

www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/child-abuse-and-neglect/child-sexual-abuse/sexual-abuse-facts-statistics/

Mostly, I strongly suspect, by boys.

I think the one thing that everyone can agree on on both sides of this is the India is a bit of an idiot and that she as no idea what she is talking about. She does not represent anyone but herself and only wants to be famous at all costs

It was a lot like India was a plant. 😬

Agree OvaHere. Sexual predators are a potential problem, but consensual sexual experimentation and curiosity are just as much so. An older man responding to JHB's tweet said something along the lines of 'I would have claimed anything to sleep in the same tent as my girlfriend when I was a teenager'. The sex drive is a powerful biological reality.

My elderly, peak-transed, father said that he wishes self-ID had been in place when he was doing his required military service as he would have self-ID'd as woman when it was time for showering.

@HairyLittlePoet

Please please tweet your poem to Jenni Murray and WH

And I do hope JHB does visit us - her "Women don't have penises" was a joy to hear on the airwaves

Urgh, some of the comments on that Twitter feed. There's actual transphobia on there (and misogyny and homophobia). I don't get why people try to pretend that Mumsnet with its tendency to bend over backwards to look at alternative viewpoints is a hive of transphobia rather than tackling some of the genuine hate out there.

There's also a real vein of jeering that feminists caused all this by forcing the Scouts to go mixed. Way to miss several points at once.

I tweeted it back when IW and the leg shaving incident happened originally BoreOfWhabylon I think.

Well done, HLP!

I thought it was a shame that the CEO of such a significant website was shouted over. I had the same feelings when I watched Karen Ingala Smith on GMB.
There is a desperate need for nuance and respect... interesting to see how & where this stifled.

Just listening now and at the part where Julia says she had had to have a word with IW before they went on air.

What a show IW made, goodness me.

Good on JBH and Justine.

Unfortunately I think this is India’s unique topic and her money earner as in the past she has been clear about her being trans sexual and not trans gender as such and some of her comments are contradictory. I do feel post op women (I am more than happy to call and treat them as women) are being completely minimised.

India just comes across as such an angry, aggressive person. Justine, by contrast, was calm and polite.
Also thought it was interesting how India brought up, "if they were talking about black people this it wouldn't be allowed!" It's amazing how quickly some trans people are to bring race in as a comparison point, and yet they're so quick to say race is different to gender (deceitfully conflated with sex...) when feminists point out how offensive it would be for a white person to claim they are black, to take positions meant for black people, to call genuinely black people cis black, to give interviews on slavery as though they'd have been affected by it, etc.

None of the current thinking is doing trans people any favours in the long run. As someone said on another thread the happiest people seem to be those that accept their base biology as a truth and just get on with life without tying themselves in knots about clown fish or whether you can have uterine cramps without a uterus.

Brilliant post there Jaycee! 👏

Emphasis on this bit:

"The two year delay is there to make sure you know you are happy, have not made a mistake, realise it will not all be wine and roses and that you can cope with any setbacks without going into meltdown."

"So if you cannot be on MN and have a civil discussion without running away because someone called you a man then, sorry, you really need to have a cup of tea, a long hard think and ask yourself - is changing gender for the rest of my life really for me."