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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Ooh step back, India Willoughby is going to penetrate the Mumsnet debate

999 replies

ALittleBitOfButter · 16/04/2018 02:21

Just saw on twitter that IW says will do radio interview about Mumsnet. Sorry can't link as on phone.

OP posts:
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9
Popchyk · 17/04/2018 20:09

Thinking about it.

I am going to plump for The Show Must Go On as Queen's best actually.

And I won't hear another word about it.

RosenbergW · 17/04/2018 20:10

I sent for juice, you give me poison

You used to speak the truth but now you're clever

RosenbergW · 17/04/2018 20:12

Don't stop me now, surely!

SupermatchGame · 17/04/2018 20:14

Ereshkigal

HOUSE!

You think it's funny? Funny to be on the side of the bigots who oppose progressive laws and developing the rights of those who have been denied them?

History has shown that oppressed groups have, one by one become liberated. And there were always the naysayers. They opposed the abolition of slavery. They opposed the legalisation of abortion. They opposed emancipation. They opposed decriminalisation of homosexuality. They opposed gay marriage. And finally they opposed trans rights.

And the sad thing is you are aligning yourselves with these people and you can't even see it. That is the real tragedy.

RosenbergW · 17/04/2018 20:16

Slavery, abortion, emancipation, homosexuality, gay marriage, trans rights.

Anything missing?

DarthArts · 17/04/2018 20:16
AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 17/04/2018 20:17
Beyond11cisRetinol · 17/04/2018 20:17

"The fact that this wouldn't be tolerated in the workplace is a benchmark for what is considered civil and respectful"

You're the one harping on about how the exact wording of the EA apparently criminalises misgendering - why does it only matter that that bit is followed, and not the bit that specifies it is talking about a workplace?
Either we have to follow it to the letter or we don't, it's not up to your interpretation and bias alone.

RefuseToDenounceBiology · 17/04/2018 20:18

History has shown that oppressed groups have, one by one become liberated.

Well thank f for that because it is becoming pretty oppressive having people trying to force us to swallow and regurgitate things we know to be lies. Bring on the day of liberation!

Beyond11cisRetinol · 17/04/2018 20:19

Oh and re adoption. If the bio parent is diagnosed with a genetic illness, legal fiction wont stop the child from contracting it, any more than a TIM can will themselves out of prostate cancer.

Beyond11cisRetinol · 17/04/2018 20:20

(Personally I'd go for "March of the Black Queen")

Ereshkigal · 17/04/2018 20:21

You're right I don't see it. Because what I see is the destruction of women's rights. And that has happened because stupid, unworkable Orwellian legislation has been slipped in and has pulled the rug out from under our feet where we stood. So don't preach your dogma to me.

RunRabbitRunRabbit · 17/04/2018 20:22

super in the adoption scenario there would indeed be circumstances in which it would be appropriate to clarify that the mother is the adoptive mother. Not every day scenarios but there are times when the distinction would be relevant. It would never be correct to say that the adoptive mother is the biological mother.

I worry that we are being asked to say that transwomen are women. Of course it is polite to call a transwoman a woman in most circumstances but sometimes it matters that a transwoman is a man.

Do you agree that there are circumstances where the law should treat a trans woman according to their male biology rather than according to their wish to be female? That's what the equality act allows for at present. Is that something you are comfortable with?

LastGirlOnTheLeft · 17/04/2018 20:22

History has shown that oppressed groups have, one by one become liberated.

Women are the most oppressed group in history...we have been working and campaigning and waiting for centuries for our liberation from male fuckers!! So where the hell is it?

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 17/04/2018 20:22

Fuck him.

We are campaigning against the introduction of bad law not saying any law is bad.

flowersonthepiano · 17/04/2018 20:23

Below are quotations from 1984

“It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words.”

“Don't you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it.”

“Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.”

“You believe that reality is something objective, external, existing in its own right.... But I tell you Winston, reality is not external. Reality exists in the human mind, and nowhere else.”

If the law says I must state “2 + 2 = 5” or face prosecution. Then the law is an ass. Prosecute me.
I use requested pronouns in general, out of courtesy, but recent events are making me question whether it is wise to do so. I use the word male to describe someone with XY chromosomes. Material reality is important.

Beyond11cisRetinol · 17/04/2018 20:23

I look forward to the liberation of autistic people who are unable to lie.

I hope you spare some thought for them while you are encouraging the world to lie.

HairyLittlePoet · 17/04/2018 20:23

on misgendering:

Ooh step back, India Willoughby is going to penetrate the Mumsnet debate
Ereshkigal · 17/04/2018 20:23

Anything missing?

I bet certain posters wouldn't have a clue what you're getting at.

Trousersdontmakemeaman · 17/04/2018 20:24

Who is this they?

Beyond11cisRetinol · 17/04/2018 20:25

Whoever it is, it sounds like the introduction to a film.

A horror movie perhaps.

RosenbergW · 17/04/2018 20:25

He's just so keen
For you to listen

This one goes round my head so much.

Beyond11cisRetinol · 17/04/2018 20:26

They opposed the abolition of slavery.
They opposed the legalisation of abortion.
They opposed emancipation.
They opposed decriminalisation of homosexuality.
They opposed gay marriage.

And now they're coming for you...

RosenbergW · 17/04/2018 20:27

I bet certain posters wouldn't have a clue what you're getting at.

Sometimes it's not what they say, it's what they don't say.

Of course sometimes it's both.

SupermatchGame · 17/04/2018 20:27

Yes I get what you're saying Refuse. Firstly I think it isn't good to surround myself with an echo chamber. It's important to hear everyone's views, including those you don't agree with. Kind of like I read both L wing and R wing papers to keep a balanced view and an awareness of what others think.

I don't think I've thrown my weight around - but happy to reflect on that.

I find it sad that this forum is projecting such a bad version of feminism out there. Important issues such as being able to openly explore self id and the impact it could have on female spaces is being drowned out here by the prejudice and bile ("Transwomen aren't women and I'll never call a transwoman she or a transman he" etc etc).

There is a world of other feminists (and I'm not talking about trans people) who are more inclusive and fight for women's rights including those (genuine) transwomen who also need support - as women. And yes some of those people are here, but it feels like they are also often shut down.

I'm not sure that I want to 'chill' all the time. Those who stand by and do nothing...

Does that make sense?

Anyway. Off for dinner now.