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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ooh step back, India Willoughby is going to penetrate the Mumsnet debate

999 replies

ALittleBitOfButter · 16/04/2018 02:21

Just saw on twitter that IW says will do radio interview about Mumsnet. Sorry can't link as on phone.

OP posts:
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AngryAttackKittens · 17/04/2018 11:57

I'd like to buy Julia a drink.

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 17/04/2018 12:02

JHB has 103K followers

IW has 48K

This is getting a lot of attention. And not the way IW wants

Beyond11cisRetinol · 17/04/2018 12:08

IW also blocks people on twitter like IW has a pneumatic banhammer, so people wont even be seeing IW's side of the "debate". Unless they open in private browser (which everyone can and makes me wonder about the point of blocking someone?)

Winewinewinegin · 17/04/2018 12:12

Who gets to define hate speech?

This rewriting of the very odd wording of the met police hate crimes/incidents definition leaves lots of room for utterly subjective interpretation of a hate incident.

wingsoverscotland.com/nazi-pugs-fuck-off/

Yet somehow no ground to complain about a song suggesting people curb stomp or put a brick in the face of feminists who disagree with them and who therefore must be 'TERF's. Despite the recent conviction of a TERF thumped by a TRA, combined with all the it's OK to be violent against someone if you think they are a TERF.

The equality act doesn't seem to be working very well for women at the moment does it? Especially if they value the freedom to point out things like they have a right to privacy and dignity in the form of single sex spaces, for example.

Winewinewinegin · 17/04/2018 12:13

Hooray:

JHB to IW on Twitter just now:
No, my logic is that causing offence is not - and should not be - a crime in this country. The right to free speech matters more than feelings. You are intent on taking offence at anything and everything. That’s just silly.

Winewinewinegin · 17/04/2018 12:14

But do the met police agree?

Can someone on twitter ask JHB about the met police stuff?

SweetGrapes · 17/04/2018 12:16

Can someone add a link to the petition in the mix on twitter?

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

Melamin · 17/04/2018 12:17

There was one activist linking shots of their own profile, which no one can see - so just a 'this link is unavailable'. I expect they are wondering why no one is responding. Hmm Their links to mumnet seem well received though.

Melamin · 17/04/2018 12:19

There is a link - needs a few more. It is a bit of a rabbit warren.

twitter.com/SwearyGodmother/status/986200422703656960

Winewinewinegin · 17/04/2018 12:21

How is it abuse to state a male is a male?

We need to be able to do this for legal and policy reasons on a day to day basis.

Without that clarity you get the ridiculousness of a youth organisation saying boys can share girls showers and sleeping quarters without parental knowledge or consent, if they say they are a girl.

And then rejecting the concerns of people pointing this out as inappropriate as discriminatory, disappointing, negative, scaremongering or political.

RosenbergW · 17/04/2018 12:25

Winewinewinegin

I wish I was as succinct as you.

AnchorMum · 17/04/2018 12:30

Thank you dearest Mums Netters.

I've just spent the last couple of hours reading through this thread and taking every single comment in.

I can't tell you how much it means to me to know that there are women (and others) out there who see and care about what is going on, and are prepared to stand up and say so.

I was propelled into the Trans world 12 months ago, when my 20 year old daughter suddenly, and completely out of the blue, announced she was non-binary and asked us to call her 'they.' We thought this was a phase, a reaction to some very difficult and stressful years which culminated in her having to give up the thing she loved the most, and which she'd been training to do since she was a tiny girl.

However, since then things have moved at a frighteningly fast pace - she has developed gender and body dysphoria and has to wear a binder, now refers to herself as they/he, has changed her name, and has already been approved by an NHS 'gender specialist' for testosterone and a double mastectomy.

We still think of her as 'she' and her original name, but obviously wouldn't say this to her as it would trigger a reaction and create an even bigger rift between us. She has refused to see us since just after Christmas, which was when we started to voice our concerns and worries. Communication between us is hanging by a thread and we have to be extremely careful what we say now.

I'm not posting this for sympathy or to hijack this thread, but to tell you all that I am so grateful that this space exists. So relieved to know you are all out there. I find Twitter such a difficult place and so very depressing at times - but this is a place where women can be themselves, tell the TRUTH, and not feel ashamed or frightened about it.

It feels like I'm fighting a battle on so many fronts right now - personally and also on a universal/political front.

I want to protect the status of women, no way can I stand by and allow the erosion of women and girls' rights and spaces. It feels like the sudden 'loss' of my own daughter is living proof of the way parts of the trans movement support the cultivation of young, often lesbian, women so that they buy into the belief that their female bodies are shameful, not fit for purpose, and need to be surgically and hormonally stripped of their physical and biological markers. I think this is projected envy by the TRAs.

Interestingly, my daughter says she is still determined to have children - but if I dare to voice my worries that she will make herself infertile she tells me that she will adopt. The adoption mantra is all part of the cultivation and I believe it's seen as 'proof' of your trans 'commitment.' There's absolutely nothing wrong with adoption of course, but in this particular context it's extremely concerning.

Some days I feel broken. The debate, in all its complexities and many layers, dominates my thoughts and it all feels so hopeless. On days like these I turn to MN, read your thoughts and feel supported and held by the sanity and wisdom of my fellow sisters.

Thank you.

Trousersdontmakemeaman · 17/04/2018 12:31

Just announced
In June our Chief Executive @JulieBentley will be stepping down to become the chief executive at @ActnForChildren. Julie's been a passionate champion for our girls and volunteers - we wish her all the best in her new role! www.girlguiding.org.uk/what-we-do/our-stories-and-news/news/farewell-to-chief-executive-julie-bentley/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=julieannouncement …

Trousersdontmakemeaman · 17/04/2018 12:33

AnchorMum

This must break your heart, I am so sorry for you.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 17/04/2018 12:38

anchormum Flowers

Viago · 17/04/2018 12:38

Anchor Flowers Flowers

BeUpStanding · 17/04/2018 12:38

@AnchorMum Flowers

I am so sorry for the pain you and your family are going through. Please keep posting, you're amongst friends here and we'll do whatever we can to support you and your daughter. More FlowersCakeBrew to you x x

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 17/04/2018 12:40

Anchor Flowers

There are some parents on this board who have/are going through what you are experiencing. I hope they come along soon.

Have a look at Lily Maynards blog. daughter was trans but has now detranistioned and happy. Rooting for you and your daughter

lilymaynard.wordpress.com/2017/11/08/when-is-a-girl-not-a-girl/

If you feel like it, start a thread of your own and I'm sure that you will receive much support. There is also an LGBT kids board on Mumsnet

TurningTables · 17/04/2018 12:40
Flowers
boldlygoingsomewhere · 17/04/2018 12:40

AnchorMum, that must be so hard for you. Flowers

SwearyG · 17/04/2018 12:40

AnchorMum stories like yours are one of the things that peak transed me. I'm so sorry that you're going through this. I'm glad you've found us, please stick around. Have you read Lily Maynard's blog about going through the same thing with her, slightly younger, daughter?

The medical profession will have a lot to answer for when women such as your daughter realise they've been deceived and damaged in the name of this regressive ideology.

Melamin · 17/04/2018 12:41

Really this guidance is at odds with everything else they have been doing.

Anchor mum - been there with the lack of communication with 20+year olds, but with mental health issues - feel for you. Flowers

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 17/04/2018 12:41

Interesting that Julie Bentley announced her standing down today....

Idontdowindows · 17/04/2018 12:42

AnchorMum I am so, so sorry. Rapid Onset Gender Disphoria is a fad, a trend, a craze, like so many others that have swept teenage years since time immemorial.

This one, however, is different. This one damages children for life :(

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 17/04/2018 12:42

anchormum

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