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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ooh step back, India Willoughby is going to penetrate the Mumsnet debate

999 replies

ALittleBitOfButter · 16/04/2018 02:21

Just saw on twitter that IW says will do radio interview about Mumsnet. Sorry can't link as on phone.

OP posts:
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Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 17/04/2018 12:43

Oh my god I forgot the flowers!!!

Thanks
LangCleg · 17/04/2018 12:45

AnchorMum

Flowers

There is a support board for parents who question trans ideology but want to support their trans identifying children. It's here, if you need it:

gendercriticalresources.com/Support/

womanformallyknownaswoman · 17/04/2018 12:45

@AnchorMum I want to protect the status of women, no way can I stand by and allow the erosion of women and girls' rights and spaces. It feels like the sudden 'loss' of my own daughter is living proof of the way parts of the trans movement support the cultivation of young, often lesbian, women so that they buy into the belief that their female bodies are shameful, not fit for purpose, and need to be surgically and hormonally stripped of their physical and biological markers.

It must be so horrendous for you to see what's happening and feel powerless to stop it. A lot of the trans movement online seems to operate like a cult using undue influence to hook in vulnerable youngsters - targeting them when they are low and off-balance and then messing with their mind into believing they can get rid of their distress if they change their body. I don't know if you realise how much BigPharm is using trans and social media to sell their drugs and surgery - it really is about consumerising distress but not always in the best interests of the young person. There are some detransistioners speaking up now - might be worth seeking them out on Reddit - I'll get a link if you want - have you got informed help as to how to keep a channel of communication open btw?

My heart goes out to you…

IndominusRex · 17/04/2018 12:47

Anchor - I really hope that you and your daughter are ok. It must be incredibly stressful for you.

R0wantrees · 17/04/2018 12:47

AnchorMum
Flowers
The extent to which the voices of the TRA have influenced social media, policy and legislation is yet to be fully exposed.
Great harm is being done to some young and vulnerable people within a context of a progressive ideology. There is such a desperate need for those with expertise in young people's mental health services and clinics such as Tavistock to challenge those who insist on the absolute belief in affirmation.

OvaHere · 17/04/2018 12:51

I'm so sorry Anchor Mum it must be very hard to stand by and see your child in emotional pain yet recognise they may be doing themselves more harm in the long run trying to resolve it.

It's horrifying that so many young women and girls are seeking refuge from womanhood through surgery and drugs ruining their future fertility in the process.

I believe in hindsight all this will be viewed as a tragic epidemic that should have been the focus of serious safeguarding and intervention. I appreciate that is of no comfort to you now. Flowers

OvaHere · 17/04/2018 12:54

4thwavenow.com

This site has some good resources about ROGD including written testimony from mothers and their (detransitioned) daughters.

DontCisgenderMe · 17/04/2018 13:01

AnchorMum Flowers

AbsintheFriends · 17/04/2018 13:05

Just read your post AnchorMum and had to add my sympathy and support.

My peripheral (sceptical) awareness of this issue was catapulted to a different level by my own daughter buying into it completely and uncritically. She hasn't identified as trans, but I can imagine your feelings of distress and helplessness. Hope you stay around here and find it a source of support and useful information.

CapnHaddock · 17/04/2018 13:08

Oh @AnchorMum - that must be heartbreaking and terrifying in equal measure Flowers

TurningTables · 17/04/2018 13:24

Julie Bentley has resigned from GG, how much is she paid? Interesting timing, who is left to clean up
her mess, the volunteers dealing with service users? Where is she going?

LiquoriceTea · 17/04/2018 13:24

Oh anchor I can't imagine how hard that is.

I'm in a fb group with some leftie/homeschooler types who are otherwise lovely but great the mermaid line and I can see how easy it is to get caught up in it. And for a teen wanting an identity/to belong/ show belief and commitment in something it's ideal :(

RosenbergW · 17/04/2018 13:27

Julie drove perception-busting initiatives, ensuring that girls and young womens’ voices are at the heart of the charity and supporting them to be powerful public advocates about issues affecting their lives
(From the announcement about the Chief Exec of GG)

This is about a Chief Exec who has overseen a fundamental change to the Girl Guides to allow in males who identify as girls, without stopping to ask how the girls or their mums or the branch Leaders feel about that, and when those people publicly advocate for themselves against these changes, this Chief Exec refuses to discuss the issue with them advocated insinuate they're a bunch of politicals?

And they are now going to be Chief Exec at Action for Children where they presumably will also be expected to advocate for and keep safe more children? That is very concerning.

RosenbergW · 17/04/2018 13:29

this Chief Exec refuses to discuss the issue with them and insinuates they're a bunch of politicals?

Sorry, my spellcheck does weird things.

DarthArts · 17/04/2018 13:29

Justine has made a statement on the Spartacus thread:

Hello everyone.

I think the key thing here - and the position I've been banging on about very publicly over the last week - is that Mumsnet believes in and stands for freedom of speech and diverse opinion. That includes the right to discuss the issue of self-identity and opinions and consequences of that.

At the same time we're are committed to our moderation guidelines - i.e. that we will remove hate speech, keep it civil and delete posts which are mean-spirited, deliberately inflammatory or personal attacks (which is in effect our moderation policy across the whole of Mumsnet).

So we're not talking about deleting posts where people say "I believe transwomen are male" But a thread which is specifically about a named individual who's self identified as a women and which repeatedly calls that person he or a man is potentially hurtful and unkind and we'd class it as a personal attack. (In retrospect I think it might have been better to delete the whole India Willoughby thread yesterday rather than select individual posts for deletion, as I can see why that's caused confusion.)

It's the effect of the thread in totality that feels mean and can make people feel under attack, rather than any one post in isolation.

Lots of people have spoken about WeGoHigh as a principle. I think that's a fantastic idea. Here's why: Mumsnet is committed to freedom of speech, we can see the importance of this issue and we want to provide a space for discussion of it to happen - but it makes our job much, much harder if things get personal. Harder because it obviously encourages external attacks and trolls, harder because it makes it easier for people to ignore the substantive points and to label Mumsnet as transphobic, harder because it makes it a lot easier for advertisers who effectively support the site to say I don't want to be associated with this.

I hope you can see where we're coming from. We've taken a stand on this - and made our lives quite complicated tbh - because we absolutely believe it's the right thing to do. We're asking for your support to help MN 'go high' (even in the face of at times considerable provocation) and to help us maintain a civil debate; and we'll endeavour to be as consistent as we can be in our implementation of our mod policy and to admit when we've made a bad call.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 17/04/2018 13:34

I don't have a problem with what Justine has said. In fact, I agree with it.

TurningTables · 17/04/2018 13:36

www.actionforchildren.org.uk

We help them through fostering or adoption – and by intervening early to stop neglect and abuse. We make life better for children with disabilities. We influence policy and advocate for change. Our 7,000 staff and volunteers operate over 600 services, improving the lives of 370,000 children, teenagers, parents and carers every year. We succeed by doing what’s right, doing what’s needed, and doing what works for children.

What do we know about Julie?

R0wantrees · 17/04/2018 13:36

There are many really important points within this thread .
I understand Mumsnet's position and sincerely hope that this thread will not be deleted in its entirety since to do so will have wide-reaching implications.
There is a much bigger picture, one which is only just being revealed.

TurningTables · 17/04/2018 13:36

Can someone tweet JHB and let her know this development?

Winewinewinegin · 17/04/2018 13:37

Thanks Justine and mumsnet. I really appreciate the stand you have taken on freedom of speech and am 100% behind all you say above.

TurningTables · 17/04/2018 13:38

Isn't it 50% of trans children at Tavistock with an ASD dx?

TurningTables · 17/04/2018 13:39

From our origins running children's homes, our work has spanned three centuries, developing services for children that are proven to work. We work in partnership with other charities, local authorities and health services, and are supported by a team of experts and specialists. Evidence drives everything we do.

AnchorMum · 17/04/2018 13:40

There are many really important points within this thread .
I understand Mumsnet's position and sincerely hope that this thread will not be deleted in its entirety since to do so will have wide-reaching implications.
There is a much bigger picture, one which is only just being revealed.

Totally agree with this Rowantrees

TurningTables · 17/04/2018 13:40

If you have a disabled child, we offer a range of short breaks including community, residential short breaks, family-based breaks or support in your own home.

These short breaks are tailored to your child’s needs and what they want to do.

We also provide a range of services from early support to helping disabled young people prepare for adulthood.

Warwickshire Short Breaks has been rated "Outstanding" by Ofsted for the last seven years. Meet our staff, children, and find out what makes this excellent service tick.

Idontdowindows · 17/04/2018 13:40

a thread which is specifically about a named individual who's self identified as a women and which repeatedly calls that person he or a man is potentially hurtful and unkind

The truth does hurt sometimes. That makes it no less the truth than it is, and insisting that women on MUMsnet toe the trans party line and say that men can be women IS hurtful and unkind!

Making women LIE about biology and reality is NOT "going high". It is tone policing and it is telling women they are not allowed to be angry about something they bloody well SHOULD be angry about if they value protection of female spaces!