Ooh step back, India Willoughby is going to penetrate the Mumsnet debate

[ALittleBitOfButter]

Just saw on twitter that IW says will do radio interview about Mumsnet. Sorry can't link as on phone.

To be clear, I think the engagement with trans identifying people that IW refers to is groups who have approached MNHQ with the kind offer to educate them out of their transphobic ways.

Presumably with info graphics such as this, which every parent knows is tripe. All colours and toys for all children!

R0wantrees

Oh yes, I do hope JHB digs a little into their accounts. They are quite the eye opener

Christ

They are using Danielle Muscato as an example of MN's 'transphobia'

Uh-oh. Talk Radio is just about to reach #peaktrans

twitter.com/LabourGay/status/985926639015034886

JHB must be on here somewhere, she's not dropping India's comments about mn Julia, we salute you!

Mn, seeing as we're so trans exclusionary with our webchat choices, can I put in an official request for one with India? Pretty please...? :)

Please, please, please, please god - let Muscato join in on that twitter convo. I will renounce my atheism and be a good catholic 🙏

Wow, pointing anyone who's not yet familiar with this debate in the direction of Danielle Muscato is an own goal of epic proportions.

I am wearing mustard today so about a 6.5. It that my identity score? Do I need a new birth certificate or is it self ID?

We're past own goals from the TRAs - we're on own hat-tricks!

Wow, pointing anyone who's not yet familiar with this debate in the direction of Danielle Muscato is an own goal of epic proportions.
Wait til someone mentions Stefonknee!!

ON that thread Perky (such a womanlike name there) now says this to Julia. It just gets better and better.

TERFs say that trans women are not women because trans women do not have "ladies problems" like periods and menopause and prolapses. They reduce womanhood down to the ailments they suffer! So who is being sexist exactly?

Ah Talk Radio. Welcome to 1984.

A genuine question; is Danielle M attempting to transition / do they suffer from dysphoria and have not yet been able to transition due to financial constraints etc? I don't know much about this person. Apart from trying to go to a woman's refuge I think?

Hopefully she will get Perky on her show.

10 minutes of that ought to do it

How can we speak without causing offense in these circumstances?

As I understand it the transgender authorities currently approve of women calling ourselves cis or cissy, just the way they do.

I think the situation was made clear when the judge told witnesses they needed to refer to the transgender Self ID person with female pronouns out of courtesy, and it was confirmed that the judicial guide book confirms that courtesy trumps truth.
Until laws and regulations and guide books are changed we are caught between the rock an the hard place. Lie to placate abusive males or use their name and naught else.

Muscato is putting on the ultimate male dominance display, or so Muscato says.

So the big question is, does it really penetrate?

Oh yes. We are very transphobic when it comes to Danielle Muscato

I think India gets frustrated because they are constantly read as male
It's so hard to see someone acting so male as a woman. BB was such an eye-opener as to their behaviour. The shouting I am a woman is something no bio woman would do
I am happy to accept trans women as trans women but bio women need their own category and, sometimes, spaces
India will never get what India wants. And that's from men because imo India is not interested in women. They want a straight man to be attracted to them

Muscato really is an enormous own goal, couldn’t resist tweeting a couple of pictures. That ‘suck my dick’ one sums it up nicely

Can I interject this thread with a link to seven hex's twitter thread this weekend please.

It's another example of where mn and transpeople sing from the same songsheet without all the vitriol.

twitter.com/seven_hex/status/985219754540625921?s=21

It seems to me that there are many contradictions between the laws and regulations and guidebooks though.

And that if the wider public were aware of this they would erupt. Not because of the trans issues - though that would cause shockwaves. But because having legal/pseudolegal guidelines which compel citizens to lie about biological reality or risk punishment is a human rights issue. People would see it as forcing an ideology on them, which it is. One that fundamentally rewrites how (whether) we are allowed to describe ourselves and our children and and our relationships.

"A genuine question; is Danielle M attempting to transition / do they suffer from dysphoria and have not yet been able to transition due to financial constraints etc? I don't know much about this person. Apart from trying to go to a woman's refuge I think?"

My understanding is they have said that they have health issues which prevent them from taking anything more than a minimal HRT dose. They've described the dose as being 'therapeutic' rather than transformative.

Periods are not an "ailment". A menstruating body is not malfunctioning, it is in fact working the way it evolved to work.

I think it's probably pertinent to remember that the equality act says if someone says they are trans, then the correct pronouns ought to be used.

251 pages of the Equality Act here.
Not one mention of the word pronoun.

Handbook for Advisors here
Not one mention of the word pronoun.

Other guidance, the judicial guide book and even MN might recommend using requested pronouns, but compelled speech is not law. (yet!)

& this is why all forces up to now have supported #nodebate. I think there was a panic, when Maria Miller didn't sign off the GRA last year.
Lots of the inflaming with LM etc has been exploited to push political parties into agreeing the laws and legislation. It's a shame because although it might seem like a 'victory', as RosenbergW says, there will inevitably be a backlash.
Consider how well Ricky Gervais has been received and the beginnings of push back against no-platforming in universities,
I think some of those at the very heart of the TRA don't much care about the backlash and the impact this may have on vulnerable individuals.