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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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T

999 replies

DonnaBe · 06/04/2018 07:41

Mumsnet has been invaded by a small group of people who are giving out wrong information about the proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act.

They claim that women’s spaces are being invaded and women are being silenced. Please read this and make up your own minds!

A gender Self ID law – like the one proposed in the UK - was recently introduced in Ireland. To change your gender on government records, you need to sign a Statutory Declaration in front of a solicitor and declare that you are living in your acquired gender and intend to stay that way. This is a legal document.

Self ID has not caused problems in Ireland. This is the kind of thing that is being proposed in the UK. It's about making a statement under oath about your acquired gender.

It has been claimed that anyone will be able to claim to be the opposite gender whenever they want. Not true. Nobody is proposing that big blokes with beards can say “I am a woman today” and have legal protection to use women’s loos. If they were, I would be campaigning against it. That is absolutely not what is being proposed

The group behind this campaign are not new. They have been conducting anti-trans campaigns for many years. I don’t think their agenda is women’s welfare so much as expressing their hatred for trans people. The self id proposals have given them an opportunity to attack trans people. Again. They claim they are being silenced, but their views are regularly aired on TV and in the newspapers. And on Mumsnet. They have a right to speak, but I wish they’d tell the truth.

Believe it or not, this all starts with a discussion about marriage. Before 2004, trans people could not marry or stay married because there was no legal way to change the gender on their birth certificates. There was no same sex marriage back then.

The Gender Recognition Act of 2004 introduced the ability to stand in front of a Gender Recognition Panel (cost £140) and get a Gender Recognition Certificate which allowed you to change your birth certificate and get married! This is a bureaucratic arrangement that involves an element of body policing which is not nice.

The proposal now is to replace the GRP / GRC arrangement with a legally binding statutory declaration. Or something like that. That’s all. No whimsical notions like “It’s Friday. I’m a woman today.”

In fact, you can now get married if your transgendered under same sex marriage legislation. So getting a GRC is less relevant. I don’t know if there’s any research on this, but my feeling is most trans people don’t bother getting a GRC anyway.

So this is how things stand today:

There is no law banning men from women’s toilets and changing rooms. There’s only an unwritten rule. The recent Man Friday campaign where women invaded men’s toilets could have the contradictory effect of weakening this rule and end up harming women. The logical conclusion of their campaign is body policing with guards on women’s toilets and women will have to prove their gender before having a pee.

Trans women already use women’s toilets and changing rooms. I do. Nobody notices. I don’t make a song and dance about it. There is no slackening of the law defending women’s spaces because there is no such law. We get on fine without it.

The Gender Recognition Act makes exceptions for things like women’s refuges. These exceptions should be used where appropriate. Already law. Not changing.

You can live in your non-birth gender already. If you pass as that gender well enough, you just do it. You don’t need a law or certificate to do it. Thousands of people live this way and nobody is harmed by it.

OP posts:
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AngryAttackKittens · 07/04/2018 10:04

This reply has been deleted

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Ereshkigal · 07/04/2018 10:08

But I don’t think donna was saying it was Mumsnet who condoned the murder, just that there are people in the uk that do, and I do think there are some horrendously transphobic bigots in the uk.

It wasn't that Donna said that we condoned the murder, Donna brought in the conversation here into a Twitter conversation about that murder where the transactivist concerned was saying that was the end result of transphobic language and attitudes. By which they absolutely meant people like us, not male thugs who actually kick people to death.

MargeH · 07/04/2018 10:10

yetanothertranswoman

Personally I worry about a changed climate towards the trans community.

I think you are right to worry, and I'm genuinely sorry for that. If the expected weightlifting debacle at the Commonwealth Games on Monday hits the MSM, then that could be the spark that sets off a backlash.

Teacuphiccup · 07/04/2018 10:11

Ahhh I see, I hadn’t seen that.

Literal violence again. Yup.

AngryAttackKittens · 07/04/2018 10:11

I'm sure that young male thugs are always keen to hear the opinions of (mostly) middle aged women and make their decisions based on those opinions.

Datun · 07/04/2018 10:13

It certainly recognised that it's men who are doing the killing. But it's because they're transphobic. Radical feminists 'are transphobic', therefore they are culpable.

Teacuphiccup · 07/04/2018 10:15

I am the reigning king of male violence, young men are merely the puppets to my patriarchy strings.
From my croc sandals (there comfortable ok?!) to my hairy armpits I drip with the power the influence and be taken seriously.

AngryAttackKittens · 07/04/2018 10:18

Indeed, every incidence of male violence towards trans people begins with an angry aggressive man brandishing a copy of Men Possessing Women at a cowering trans person and lecturing them about the ways in which porn contributes to societal misogyny.

Teacuphiccup · 07/04/2018 10:19

Actually I think some TRA’s DO think that’s transphobic YOU WHOREAPHOBE

Teacuphiccup · 07/04/2018 10:22

ShockShockShockShock

Teacuphiccup · 07/04/2018 10:22

What’s that coming over the hill?

Another peak.

LangCleg · 07/04/2018 10:24

Indeed, every incidence of male violence towards trans people begins with an angry aggressive man brandishing a copy of Men Possessing Women at a cowering trans person and lecturing them about the ways in which porn contributes to societal misogyny.

I think they're Stepford Men - fiendishly Stepford-ed by radfems in a secret radfem Stepford-ing factory hidden on the wilds of Dartmoor - enacting phase one of the SCUM Manifesto.

AngryAttackKittens · 07/04/2018 10:26

Like FEMEN (run by a bloke), except not female, or naked, or...

Actually this is a shit analogy. Need more coffee.

Teacuphiccup · 07/04/2018 10:27

I think that the TRA’s don’t want gender equality though. They need it to validate themselves. If we could all be whatever then why be trans (unless you have body dysphoria).

TERFragetteCity · 07/04/2018 10:28

just that there are people in the uk that do, and I do think there are some horrendously transphobic bigots in the uk.

Not nearly as many as people who think women deserve everything they get.

To which OP replies

I can't see what the OP replies, because the OP uses a TERFblocker.

Open and honest debate, eh?

So using a private window I can see the OP has said that they have had electric shock needles poked in their face.

So people disagreeing with you literally is the same as having shock needles poked in your face. Whatever a shock needle is.

T
Ereshkigal · 07/04/2018 10:31

Look at it via a different browser or sign out.

user838383 · 07/04/2018 10:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AsAProfessionalFekko · 07/04/2018 10:32

Men have been beating the hell out of women for ever.

Some men have said that being wolf whistled at and having their bums pinched is fab, as it makes them a woman and we actually really enjoy it.

New rules eh?

Ereshkigal · 07/04/2018 10:32

Sorry I missed the bit where you did BlushGrin

Ereshkigal · 07/04/2018 10:34

I'm assuming the needles was some sort of facial hair removing treatment? But yes, so telling that OP mentioned it (in two separate tweets at different times actually) together with receiving "hate" on mumsnet.

AngryAttackKittens · 07/04/2018 10:35

So we made OP get electrolysis?

TERFragetteCity · 07/04/2018 10:36

'they operate in groups and support each other'.

Yes, we try to because we understand that other women and girls are also oppressed. It's called 'feminism'.

Are we living in a parallel universe or sotin?

TERFragetteCity · 07/04/2018 10:37

So we made OP get electrolysis?

Perhaps the OP could clear that up

Ereshkigal · 07/04/2018 10:37

Some men have said that being wolf whistled at and having their bums pinched is fab, as it makes them a woman and we actually really enjoy it.

Yes the implication of those pieces was quite clearly "Men! don't stop perving over women and those of us TIMs who pass, it's not fair to those who get validation from it". I think PL actually pretty much spelled that out.