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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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T

999 replies

DonnaBe · 06/04/2018 07:41

Mumsnet has been invaded by a small group of people who are giving out wrong information about the proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act.

They claim that women’s spaces are being invaded and women are being silenced. Please read this and make up your own minds!

A gender Self ID law – like the one proposed in the UK - was recently introduced in Ireland. To change your gender on government records, you need to sign a Statutory Declaration in front of a solicitor and declare that you are living in your acquired gender and intend to stay that way. This is a legal document.

Self ID has not caused problems in Ireland. This is the kind of thing that is being proposed in the UK. It's about making a statement under oath about your acquired gender.

It has been claimed that anyone will be able to claim to be the opposite gender whenever they want. Not true. Nobody is proposing that big blokes with beards can say “I am a woman today” and have legal protection to use women’s loos. If they were, I would be campaigning against it. That is absolutely not what is being proposed

The group behind this campaign are not new. They have been conducting anti-trans campaigns for many years. I don’t think their agenda is women’s welfare so much as expressing their hatred for trans people. The self id proposals have given them an opportunity to attack trans people. Again. They claim they are being silenced, but their views are regularly aired on TV and in the newspapers. And on Mumsnet. They have a right to speak, but I wish they’d tell the truth.

Believe it or not, this all starts with a discussion about marriage. Before 2004, trans people could not marry or stay married because there was no legal way to change the gender on their birth certificates. There was no same sex marriage back then.

The Gender Recognition Act of 2004 introduced the ability to stand in front of a Gender Recognition Panel (cost £140) and get a Gender Recognition Certificate which allowed you to change your birth certificate and get married! This is a bureaucratic arrangement that involves an element of body policing which is not nice.

The proposal now is to replace the GRP / GRC arrangement with a legally binding statutory declaration. Or something like that. That’s all. No whimsical notions like “It’s Friday. I’m a woman today.”

In fact, you can now get married if your transgendered under same sex marriage legislation. So getting a GRC is less relevant. I don’t know if there’s any research on this, but my feeling is most trans people don’t bother getting a GRC anyway.

So this is how things stand today:

There is no law banning men from women’s toilets and changing rooms. There’s only an unwritten rule. The recent Man Friday campaign where women invaded men’s toilets could have the contradictory effect of weakening this rule and end up harming women. The logical conclusion of their campaign is body policing with guards on women’s toilets and women will have to prove their gender before having a pee.

Trans women already use women’s toilets and changing rooms. I do. Nobody notices. I don’t make a song and dance about it. There is no slackening of the law defending women’s spaces because there is no such law. We get on fine without it.

The Gender Recognition Act makes exceptions for things like women’s refuges. These exceptions should be used where appropriate. Already law. Not changing.

You can live in your non-birth gender already. If you pass as that gender well enough, you just do it. You don’t need a law or certificate to do it. Thousands of people live this way and nobody is harmed by it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
PrivatePie · 07/04/2018 10:37

I think the needles in the face and electric shocks are referring to a session of electrolysis.

HarryLovesDraco · 07/04/2018 10:38

Male violence against TIMs is blamed on women because women/'terfs' legitimise transphobia which makes these men think murdering them is ok Hmm
In fact violent men have been murdering anyone who deviates from their expectations since time began. Women have always been the first and biggest category of people murdered by violent men so blaming us for trans murders is particularly egregious but don't forget misogyny dictates that women are always to blame for male violence.

Ereshkigal · 07/04/2018 10:39

Yes, we try to because we understand that other women and girls are also oppressed. It's called 'feminism'.

I know, it's terrible. Groups of them!

HarryLovesDraco · 07/04/2018 10:41

So we made OP get electrolysis?

Yes! Because we violently gatekeep womanhood with transphobic conditions like 'being female' so transwomen have no choice but to try to look female so they won't get murdered by the violent men who do terfs' bidding
^ not satire, actual TRA views

Ereshkigal · 07/04/2018 10:42

Yes they are forced, forced I tell you! To perform femininity.

AngryAttackKittens · 07/04/2018 10:43

And also by suggestion that the sex industry is in general a bad thing and being concerned for the people working in it we create societal prejudice against those people, thus leading violent men to murder them.

We also cause milk to turn sour, and occasionally murder the neighbor's goat by giving it the evil eye.

HarryLovesDraco · 07/04/2018 10:43

www.playboy.com/articles/trans-objectification
Sexual objectification is a privilege of the white, cis and thin

AsAProfessionalFekko · 07/04/2018 10:44

I know women who have electrolysis. Some women are hairy. What's the point about electrolysis again?

Are female to males made to have electrolysis on their scalp to minic male pattern baldness now?

Ereshkigal · 07/04/2018 10:47

twitter.com/JulieCeeCheff/status/982466319596605440?s=20

Well that's good because none of us here have ever expressed anything of the sort.

AsAProfessionalFekko · 07/04/2018 10:49

I await the inevitable attack...

yetanothertranswoman · 07/04/2018 11:04

I've just read about Laurel Hubbard - the weightlifter. That kind of attitude and arrogance to just come in and compete in a woman's competition really doesn't help the trans community. It just adds fuel to the fire.

I can't see how anyone can justify Laurel competing in a sport that is so obviously based on muscle, strength and the entire cardio-vascular system. I also don't understand Laurel's thought process where she thought it would be ok to just compete in a female weightlifting competition.

Datun · 07/04/2018 11:08

It's cheating. That's the thought process.

MargeH · 07/04/2018 11:15

yetanothertranswoman

Given the current climate, with GC articles starting to appear in parts of the media, I really do think this could be a problem for people like yourself. Bruce Jenner may have engendered sympathy, but blatant cheating like this is going to expose the whole ridiculousness of 'transwomen are women' to a far wider, and hostile, audience.

I fear you and your friends are about to be written off as collateral damage by the activists.

Winewinewinegin · 07/04/2018 11:17

yetanothertranswoman there will be voices of support for you from people like me on this board. Sorry you are caught up in this.

AngryAttackKittens · 07/04/2018 11:18

It's also "why be mediocre in the men's league when you can dominate the women's league?"

AsAProfessionalFekko · 07/04/2018 11:21

Why not just join a kids league then? Wipe the floor with those little cry babies!

SophoclesTheFox · 07/04/2018 11:22

Have very much enjoyed this thread over my cup of tea this morning.

What does the title mean, though? Just "T"? T for Terf? T for Testerical? T for ta-ta to biology?

And just once more for the gallery: I was at the House of Commons meeting. I sat next to a trans identifying male/transwoman/feminine presenting man (delete as applicable). And I saw Miranda Yardley was also there. So when Donna says "transwomen were banned from the event", Donna's pants are ON FIRE. That is a lie. And when challenged, Donna has doubled down on that lie, and clearly cannot accept that they are wrong. You have to wonder why.

I do also want to circle back around to the point raised by the concept that if women on Mumsnet are having political opinions, they must have been incited into them by dark forces, because dear god, Mums don't think about politics, they're too busy wiping bums and trying to make a chicken feed five people for week!

This is sexist bullshit of the highest order, and it tells you a lot about what Donna thinks of women.

FloraFox · 07/04/2018 11:23

SimonBarnes

So why are you just fussing with us women who want to keep our safe spaces. We are no threat to you, men are.

Men aren't that much of a threat to TIMs, that's why they are more concerned with forcing women to validate them than they are about keeping women's spaces safe. They like to fetishise the idea of being vulnerable (see 6'3" Jane Fae fretting about delivery men) but the reality is that they are not at much risk.

AsAProfessionalFekko · 07/04/2018 11:24

The 'dark forces' of feminism got me when I was a student in the 1980s. Nowt to do with mumsnet!

AngryAttackKittens · 07/04/2018 11:25

It was Goody Dworkin what did it! In the library with the, um, bookmark?

yetanothertranswoman · 07/04/2018 11:26

Men aren't that much of a threat to TIM

I would disagree with that on a personal level. Having had a lot of experience from male violence

SimonBridges · 07/04/2018 11:36

I think the electric shock needles is something else to be fair.
A medical or cosmetic procedure rather than saying that we are doing it.

FWIW op, I don’t hate you, I don’t hate any trans person. Hating doesn’t get anyone anything.

SimonBridges · 07/04/2018 11:36

Who is Simon Barnes?

Ereshkigal · 07/04/2018 11:38

The point was that OP chose to mention it in the context of the mumsnet "hate" not once but twice.

Weezol · 07/04/2018 11:41

It was my mum. Unwittingly on her part. By telling me what I said and did were more important to how I looked, and teaching me how to cook but also how to wallpaper. By explaining why it was really important to vote, and letting me get a book out of the library about Suffragetes.

She's in her 70's now and only in the last few years has really heard of feminism as a thing and taken an interest.

My dad enabled her, encouraging me to do stuff that was 'for boys' and sharing his love of engineering with me over Lego and his liking for the logic of Spock in Star Trek. He even took me to the cinema to see Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back. To cap it all, he was really good at plaiting my hair.

They both led me to believe that I was a valuable person even though I was a girl, the utter, utter fools.

Of course, this was before ChildLine or Safeguarding (many of my teachers also colluded with my parents), so I was a lost cause by adulthood.